edwburns
Posts:30
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| 25 Sep 2011 07:18 PM |
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My property is in New York.
I recently had a logger contact me.
He said he will be logging my neighbor property in the December / January
time frame. He said that while he was
walking thought the neighbor’s property he noticed some trees on my property he
would consider logging.
I purchased the property about 4 years ago and had a forester
look at the property then. He said the
woods was young and would not consider logging it for another 10 years. At that point my plan was to have a forester
come in and mark the trees to be cut. Once
all the trees are marked have several loggers come in and bid on the job.
I talked to the logger who contacted me briefly. He said he does have insurance, a contract, has
a small 4 man crew, he could supply references including a park ranger that
lives down the block from my land, and would mark the trees. He also said he is not just going to mark
hardwood. He was going to mark trees
with large canopy blocking sunlight from reaching the ground (selling these as
pulp or firewood). Hardwood he would
mark trees 16 inch and above. (Is this
to small)
I am not sure what to ask him I never logged a property
before. I know he is out to make the
most he can. I just want to make sure I will not be damaging my property.
Thank you for your help.
Ed
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farmer red1
Posts:781
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| 26 Sep 2011 06:23 AM |
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i would concider the size of property you have first.if you have a small woodlot 10acres or less i wouldn't do it yet.if it goes more then that,i might only think about select cutting only some veneer logs and thin some pulp/paper trees.be sure to ask him who takes care of the tops or are they sold as pulp wood or as firewood and who gets fair share of this.
the logger may be a very repitable person but,if your not there they do have a tendacy to take advantage of people.at least he would be doing it in the winter time when there wouldn't be much ground disturbance to cause soil problems.
if you any doubt about his logging practices ask the ranger he spoke about and hold off till you see some of his work on the neighbors property.
you can still sign a contract while he's there working. |
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gobrian
Posts:36
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| 26 Sep 2011 12:27 PM |
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I agree be very very careful and check credibility. I purchased 20 acres off a 260 acre plot that had just been logged. The person that logged it did a lot of damage to land that was on CRP as well at damaged a multitude of the juvinile hardwoods and softwoods in the process that one day could have made some really nice timber. I have owned this property for six years december and it is just starting to look halfway respectable again but have put many man hours into cleaning up tops, damaged and dead trees, not to mention briers so think virtually no animal can track through all a result from this logging. I say this from speaking with neighbors that knew the land before it was logged and they said the before it was some of the best land in the county. If I was you I would follow farmers advice and talk to the ranger hold off to see his work first hand on your neighbors property.
If I ever have any logging done I will probably hire a crew with a team of horses to pull the logs out and do select cutting. I have seen woods who have had this done and when the crew is finished the damage is very minimal and the woods is coming back within a couple years. Good Luck! |
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| Can't be scared you must adapt and overcome! |
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edwburns
Posts:30
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| 26 Sep 2011 06:20 PM |
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Farmer red1 and gobrian,
Thank you for your comments.
That is a good idea to wait until he has done some work and
look first hand at his work. I am always
wary about references because who is going to give a bad reference. I feel a little better with a local ranger as a reference.
I have about 90 acres and it is about 3hrs away. I am very concerned about the damage that
could happen. I just finished putting in
a few food plots and getting the roadway back to decent condition. When I purchased the property the roadways were
in very bad shape had big ruts with some part not passable with an ATV.
I think he said he had a bulldozer and a small skidder. I forgot how long he said he was in business,
but it was a long time 15-20 years.
Ed
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WCDH
Posts:690
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| 27 Sep 2011 06:12 AM |
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They can winch the wood out. FORSTER IS THE WAY TO GO.
Logger want to make money and will tell you anything. My quess is it a line thing.
They can winch the logs out without going into the wood or only as far as needed.
FORSTER IS THE WAY TO GO.
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alex1
Posts:6
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| 12 Oct 2011 09:25 PM |
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The first thing you have to do is ask yourself is what kind of trees are on the property and what you want to manage for. Maples don't need to be managed for because the are the most shade tolerant species around. Oak on the other hand need a helping hand when basal area per acre gets above 70. Contact a forester and ask them to take a look around. Honest guys that want to keep a healthy forest for you and your game. |
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sirbuster
Posts:196
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| 21 Oct 2011 09:51 AM |
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well i see this way, if you only have 10 acres or so, , in 10 yrs or so, you may not have a great deal of logfgers interested in your land, it smallm, and costs to set up and remove the timber will cause you a lower price
the fact he is there , or will be there when he is doing the neighbor is a big deal in costs saving for him, and can be money for you
you can tell them what trees you are willing to allow to be cut and how you want them removed(tops left or not and such)
you can call your local forester , and have him walk your lands and you two can mark trees you agree on can be taken, mark them NOW with him
then have logger come back and make you an offer
if offer sounds good to you take it, if not pass
right now it will not costs you a penny, most state foresters do not charge for the service, and logging compamys don't charge for the extimate!
it cannot hurt
also your forester might have told you back when, that in 10 yrs, but that might have been for most trees, not all
he might have gave you the 10 yr deal so that them you would have a lot more trees ready to harvest, rather than just a few, so think about it
if you have only 10% of trees NOW ready, but in 10 yrs you will have say 40-50%
its thinking like that I believe,
but if the timber guy was there , and wants to take them 10% , its your call
I see done right better value to your land to wildlife and the remaining trees bu allowing more sunlight to all thats left, thus can grow fatsre and thicken in!
and in 10 yrs you can try again to log the rest!
your call |
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edwburns
Posts:30
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| 23 Oct 2011 07:51 PM |
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Sirbuster,
Thank you for the comments.
I walked though one of the properties the logger cut last year and it
did not look like he was even in the woods.
He took most of the top out of the woods for firewood the stumps were
cut very close to the ground. The logger
is suggesting removing some of the bigger trees to let the sunlight shine to
the ground.
I am going to have the trees marked and get a few bids and see
what happens from there.
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sirbuster
Posts:196
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| 24 Oct 2011 10:32 AM |
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I have a logger coming today to give me a price, but I want tops left behind, cor cover, as my place has so little deer ate it all!, and the top will help protect new tree's as they grow and better the odds of making it, I have way too many deer, so I need all the help i can get on growing new trees
and the added sunlight should be a life saver for me as well
good luck |
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Yooper
Posts:110
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| 29 Nov 2011 04:39 PM |
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Always get bids. If you want to have a direct sale have a forester do it for you. If you use a forester he or she will also be able to hold a bond to insure the job is done according to the contract, and not the loggers contract either, your contract. The contract you and your forester draw up to insure your land does not get trashed and you get paid for all the wood taken from your property. The forester will also visit the sale to make sure the specifications are being met. If they are not, the logger will have to fix the problem or he will be "asked' to leave. If the contract is written correctly any money he paid up front will remain in your pocket.
I have been in the business for decades, mostly as a public lands forester, and I have yet to see a logger offer a landowner what his timber is worth right from the get-go. The last two sales I handled for landowners are cases in point. The first one got an offer from a logger known for doing good work and then contacted me as an afterthought and asked what I thought of the stumpage price he was offered. After a little negotiating the landowner ended up with about 10% more per cord on the pulpwood and 25% more on the logs. I know I could have gotten him more if he would have been willing to bid the timber out, probably 30% more. The second one was put on bids. The top bid was about 46% higher than the original offer. I could go on with numerous examples but those two are quite typical. Good luck.
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Badger1
Posts:1322
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| 17 Jan 2012 12:25 PM |
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I
have been in the business for decades, mostly as a public lands
forester, and I have yet to see a logger offer a landowner what his
timber is worth right from the get-go. The last two sales I handled for
landowners are cases in point. The first one got an offer from a logger
known for doing good work and then contacted me as an afterthought and
asked what I thought of the stumpage price he was offered. After a
little negotiating the landowner ended up with about 10% more per cord
on the pulpwood and 25% more on the logs. I know I could have gotten him
more if he would have been willing to bid the timber out, probably 30%
more. The second one was put on bids. The top bid was about 46% higher
than the original offer. I could go on with numerous examples but those
two are quite typical. Good luck.
The above hit the nail on the head
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brittany-2
Posts:253
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| 24 Jan 2012 04:14 PM |
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Haven't seen a logger yet that wasn't a thief. |
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jwynn4
Posts:23
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| 27 Jan 2012 08:48 PM |
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i wasnt a thief when i was logging i guess thats why im not doin it anymore i guess im not dirty enough to be in a business like logging or coal. |
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Badger1
Posts:1322
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| 02 Feb 2012 02:54 PM |
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I have to say that it's really through the laziness or indifference many land owners have that allow loggers to take advantage...Now when in business ..no matter what it is...ppl will do the most they can to turn larger profits... loggers are no different...when land owners don't want to take the time to educate them self's even a little...... .well sometimes they get what they diverse
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Yooper
Posts:110
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| 05 Feb 2012 10:38 AM |
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Posted By Badger1 on 02 Feb 2012 03:54 PM
I have to say that it's really through the laziness or indifference many land owners have that allow loggers to take advantage...Now when in business ..no matter what it is...ppl will do the most they can to turn larger profits... loggers are no different...when land owners don't want to take the time to educate them self's even a little...... .well sometimes they get what they diverse
That pretty much sums it up for a lot of landowners. Some of the other types of landowners who get "taken" are the ones who convince themselves they know all there is to know about timber, that it is some sort of genetically endowed trait. The old saying about a little knowledge being a dangerous thing applies to those guys. This type landowner sometimes talks with a professional forester but right from the get-go you can tell they are only talking to you to demonstrate how much they (think they) know and are not going to listen to much of what you say. While still gainfully employed in public forestry I would shake my head when one of these guys had enough guts to come back to my office complaining about the quality of the job or the payment and wanting to know what I could do about it. Generally I was polite but once I had enough years in to retire my standard response was; "I told you so."
Another type of landowner that often gets cheated are the older folks who have lived on the land for scores of years and are used to dealing on a hand shake with their peers. When these older people are ripped off they are often too embarrassed to seek the help of an attorney and quietly suffer the loss of income they were hoping to use to replace the car or help the grandkids with college expenses (after they take a long postponed vacation). A word to the wise: If your parents or grandparents have wild land gently do what you have to do to see to it they don't lose their shirt if they decide to sell timber.
One last thing that should be obvious from this thread. Expert assistance is priceless and a good contract is worth its weight in gold, usually many times its weight in gold. |
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Ehrmantrout
Posts:11
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| 06 Feb 2012 08:29 PM |
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Brittany I have been logging all my life. It is really all I have ever known. I was born into it. As far as I am concerned I have the best office in the world. It is a great living and has provided for my family of four very well. There is some bad outfits out there but I would bet money on over half of them being some of the hardest working and most caring for are enviornment out there. People like you give it a bad name and it is very sad. |
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Yooper
Posts:110
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| 15 Feb 2012 08:36 AM |
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Posted By Ehrmantrout on 06 Feb 2012 09:29 PM
Brittany I have been logging all my life. It is really all I have ever known. I was born into it. As far as I am concerned I have the best office in the world. It is a great living and has provided for my family of four very well. There is some bad outfits out there but I would bet money on over half of them being some of the hardest working and most caring for are enviornment out there. People like you give it a bad name and it is very sad.
You write with modesty. I don't know for sure but I probably have been around and/or directly dealing with loggers longer than you have been alive. I therefore feel very comfortable in saying that far more than half of them are very hard working and are concerned with the environment, probably over 90% judging from my experience. Other than farmers (bless them) and a few others there are not many of us who work ten hour days, sometimes six days a week, with no paid sick days and no paid vacation. That said, loggers are business people who buy the commodity of standing timber to sell at a profit, and just like other business people they look to slash (no pun) costs and increase profits wherever they can. If a landowner is willing to take twenty bucks a cord my experience has been that few timber buyers would offer him fourty or even twenty five for the resource no matter what it would be worth on the open market. Classic case in point: I was contacted a little over two years back by a logging company who wanted to thin the small pine plantation we have on hunting land a couple hundred miles from where I live and work. It was definitely time to thin so I asked what he was paying. Obviously the fellow did not know my background because he offered to pay me exactly what the guy down the road had agreed to take. We almost laughed when we got the e-mail offer. My response was an invitation to make a more realistic and reasonable offer but since there are so many people out there that don't put their wood up on bids to find out what it is really worth and are willing to take the first offer they get from anyone who knocks on their door with a checkbook in hand he declined to follow up. One phone call later I had another logger pounding on my deer camp door with a reasonable offer, 233% higher. |
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