Is The .223 Rem. Deadly For Deer?

POSTED BY: Richard Mann
October 27, 2011

A lot of deer hunters believe the .223 Rem. is not enough of a cartridge to be called deer ammo. There is some logic behind this. After all, deer are sometimes lost to hits from cartridges as large as the .30-06. Truth be told, those lost deer are more than likely due to bad shooting as opposed to bad or little bullets. Regardless of what cartridge you deer hunt with, your bullet needs to penetrate deep enough to pass through vital organs. It should also expand or deform in a way to maximize the destruction of those organs.

The .223 Rem. is legal for deer hunting in a lot of states, and has proven to be effective when proper bullets are used. The down side to the .223 Rem. is not velocity or bullet diameter; a .243 Win. is no faster, and its bullet is only .02 inches wider in diameter. (That's a difference of less than the thickness of your credit card.) Bullet weight is the .223's weakness. Because most bullets shed weight as they expand and penetrate, bullet expansion combined with weight loss limits penetration. For .22 caliber bullets to be effective on deer, they need to expand wide so they can maximize tissue destruction, but they also need to maintain their weight so they can drive deep.

Bullet makers have addressed this with what some call "premium" bullets for the .223 Rem. Bullets like the Nosler Partition and Barnes TSX, which are loaded by Federal, and one of my favorites, the 62 grain Fusion load, are perfect examples. These bullets will double in diameter when they expand, but lose very little or no weight at all. The result is a bullet that will penetrate as deep as any .30-30 Win. bullet, and often damage more tissue because of the higher velocity.

Velocity is important because a higher velocity means more displaced and damaged tissue. A bullet sort of makes a splash inside the liquid-filled tissues of a deer—like when you throw a rock into a pond. Throw the rock slowly and you get a small splash; throw it faster and the splash is bigger. Muzzle velocities from a .223 Rem. are fast—1,000 fps faster than a .30-30 Win. However, because of the low ballistic coefficient (BC) of .224 caliber bullets, they slow down quickly. (Note: The .223 Rem. actually has a .224-inch diameter.)

To make these premium bullets expand to their maximum diameter for maximum tissue destruction, they need velocity. Ideally, they will have an impact velocity of 2,400 fps or more. This means shots on deer with the .223 Rem. should be limited to about 150 yards. Past that distance, impact velocities will be so slow, expansion and tissue destruction will be limited.

The only viable exception to using these premium bullets with the .223 Rem. is the ammunition from Dynamic Research Technologies (DRT). The bullets DRT uses are made from very, very small copper particles that have been compressed into a solid and inserted inside a thin copper jacket. Because of their profile and internal construction, DRT bullets penetrate several inches of hide, muscle and bone before they begin to react. When they do react, they don't expand—they literally decompress and send miniature copper particles throughout the deer's vitals. The wound cavity created is unmatched by any conventional or premium bullet.

With the DRT bullets, you will not see an exit wound like you will with the Nosler Partition, Barnes TSX or Fusion bullets. However, because of their violent upset and the massive internal damage they cause, you can expect deer to go down fast. For DRT bullets to be the most effective, they need the same level of impact velocity as the premium bullets do when fired from a .223 Rem., so keep shots inside about 150 yards.

If you use the right bullets and shoot straight, the .223 Rem. is a fine deer cartridge out to about 150 yards. The very light recoil of the .223 Rem. also makes it a cartridge most anyone can shoot accurately. And unless you want to lose that deer, accurate shooting is just as important as bullet selection, regardless of what cartridge or bullet you use.

Comments

By jpavelka Thursday, October 27, 2011 9:04 PM

Right on money !!!!

By jscott21 Friday, October 28, 2011 1:01 PM

I dropped a good sized doe with a .223 red tip. She went down immediately then got up and ran about 50 yards where she dropped for good. Shot was placed high on the ribs about 2 inches behind the shoulder.

By npaul Friday, October 28, 2011 7:11 PM

It comes down to marksmanship. My father dropped a doe in their back yard with a .22LR when he was around 10. (He wasn’t hunting and yes he got in trouble). He put the shot right between her eyes at like 30 feet.
Unfortunately, I live in Washington and you can’t hunt big game (deer, elk and so on) with anything less than .24 cal.
The military has been using the .223 to kill things for some time. In the right hands it would be a very effective game round.

By LHORSEMAN Saturday, October 29, 2011 8:12 AM

The .223 is plenty adequate for deer. That being said, bullet placement is important with any caliber. I once saw a buck shot with a .300 Win Mag that ran 50 yards and jumped a 3-strand barbwire fence. I have also seen does dropped with a .22 long rifle.
There are many variables in shooting at game, but careful bullet placement and a well executed shot is more important than caliber.

By kahl Saturday, October 29, 2011 9:00 AM

adequate depends on the shooter. if you place your shot, a .22 rimfire is adequate, even though you shouldnt use that on deer. i use a '06, yes its more gun then you need, but when that shot isnt exacly where you want it, the deer isnt going far.

By SHANNA Saturday, October 29, 2011 12:58 PM

I have never hunted deer with a .223 but I did get a 6mm that used to be my cousins and the deer I shot last year only went 15 feet before dying. the 6mm is realy a .224. So ya I think it is more than big enough. It is just like any other type of hunting, shot placement makes all the difference.

By gwalley Sunday, October 30, 2011 9:32 AM

well i live in fl. and my wife hunts with a 223 and she has alot of luck with it. and im going to look at the 62 grain fusion load and may be she with have even better luck.

By mbrown60 Sunday, October 30, 2011 2:27 PM

I've had the opportunity to harvest many whitetails with a .223! Killed my first doe with a Sako .222. I usually hunt with a 55gr softpoint and it does a good job! Some "Big Bore" hunters are very mistaken thinking that they need a large rifle cartridge to kill a whitetail. The .223 is an ethical cartridge if you know how to shoot and know where to shoot an animal!!!! It seems guys make up for bad shooting with a "Big Bore" rifle!!!! Just my opinion.

By Big Dawg Monday, October 31, 2011 12:50 PM

As has been mentioned already the most important issue when hunting an animal is correct bullet placement period. A good friend bought a AR15 years ago from Colt before they became the " new' thing in hunting. I had told him then that it would be a good hunting round as long as he took the time to plcae the bullet correctly. Well the first doe he shot walked almost in our camp and we all stood and watched as he shot her in the neck. She spun around in a circle 3 times and fell dead. When skinning her we found the bullet under the offside skin as it had not penetrated completely the neck. After seeing that he said that he would take my recommendation and place the bullet in the vitals as then the deer would not run far if any. Being a Vietnam vet I know that the round is deadly when it is paced correctly but even when not a center mass hit it will cause blood loss or loss of any limb it hits. If you are gonna use one of the rifles chambered for this round then please be sure and get lots of range time so you can place the bullet where it needs to goo and even if the deer doesn't drop at the shot it will not run very far before it dies. So the old adage of PRACTICE, PRACTIVE, PRACTICE, and when you feel confidant that you can hit where you are aiming PRACTICE some more !!!

By nwiltsie Monday, October 31, 2011 4:54 PM

my gradson shot his frist at 10 with a .223 at 140yds one shot facing him at base of the neck ,53gr. hollow point drop in its tracks!

I shot a 180 lb. wolf with the same gun running at 535yds. one bullet
dead in its tracks. 53gr.hollow point. This one i would say the GOOD LORD made run into the bullet for me.
good cal. and bullet com.

nwiltsie

By EliBourne Tuesday, November 01, 2011 1:18 PM

I just love how for years gun experts have ragged on the .243/6mm crowd as being under gunned when it came to medium sized game such as antelope and white tails. And now that the advertising dollars are in the right area they are all now promoting AR15's and the .223 Rem. as a deer cartridge with only the advise of make sure you buy the good "Premium" (synonymous with high priced) ammo, and to only make good, accurate vital hits at reasonable ranges. WOW! That's what we have been saying for years as we consistently kill deer year after year after year with these super light 85-100gr. pills capable of .25 MOA placed in the hearts of dead deer that drop on the spot. But now that the dollar signs have all aligned the planets and the money is in the AR craze (which I totally like as it is a very good platform) they are finally saying its ok. Hmmmmm. Just makes ya wonder what was driving the whole "Gotta tote a magnum cannon around the woods that will shoot through an elephant at 500 yds to kill a deer" sayings for years. My home state won't even allow rifles or shotguns that hold more than three shells so it will be interesting to see how long this whole AR thing lasts. Till Ohio let's me use my .243 (WV does allow) I will keep shooting deer with my .40 flinter which people also tell me is too light. Tell that to the deer I've killed with both of them.

By stuttle2 Wednesday, November 02, 2011 4:56 AM

I have used a 30/30 30.o6 and now my .223 Stevens and I will say this it IS the most well rounded Rifle I have owned as of yet. Took a deer at 200 yrds and it rolled down hill more the it walked. I have not yet had two think twice about taking that long shot due to the not knowing. I will say this though I would not try to go through the shoulder bone or anything but if you can get it just behind the shoulder or you can take it straight on it will do the job very nicely. JUST BE SURE YOU SIGHT YOUR GUN IN FOR THE DISTANCE THAT YOU PLAN ON SHOOTING FROM AND BE SURE OF YOUR RIFLE.

By bdake Wednesday, November 02, 2011 9:00 AM

Every Whitetail I have harvested with a firearm has been with my .223 Ruger M77 except for my very first which was with my lever action 30-30 saddle side rifle. I have never lost a deer with my .223. That being said, with a .223 you have to shot carefully. But that is just ethical hunting and should be the standard for all Hunters anyway.

By jthacker3 Wednesday, November 02, 2011 12:10 PM

I think a lot of the problem is knowing how to hit and were to hit your target. I use a DMP AR-15 .223 for deer hunting and have for years. I use winchester silver tips and have never had a problem. As for it being to small of a round well you can believe it or not but i have the meat in my freezer to prove it. I got my kill last year at 350 yards and when i hit her she just dropped right there. The bad part was there was so much energy when the shell hit her that the shoulder the bullet came out of was gone so i lost meat. But there is no problem with the .223 for hunting I have never had to put more than one round into a deer never. I would tell the people that think so to learn how to shoot if you take your time and hit the animal were you should to take it down it will go down. Think a lot of the problem is people that really do not know what they are doing and or just dont really care and take wild shots.

By ogecatman Wednesday, November 02, 2011 4:59 PM

I shot a spike horn on opening day this year with a 223 using Hornady TAP 75 gr ammo. Distance was 120 yards. Deer went 30 yards and dropped. Massive damage to liver and lung. found small part of bullet under hide on far side after breaking a rib. The only problem that I can see with using this round is that there was absolutely no blood trail to follow. I could not find where the bullet went in until gutting him out. My shot was a little too far back [my fault] but luckily the bullet worked as designed but it would be very easy to lose an animal with a less vital area hit and no blood trail to follow.

By 1Oklahoma Wednesday, November 02, 2011 6:45 PM

My son has been hnting now for three years. Every deer he took was (Buckmaster Style) one hot one kill. The .223 is the perfect deer rifle, hardly any meat damage.

By dkehrer Thursday, November 03, 2011 6:44 AM

Yes a 5.56 will kill, but it was designed to wound a wounded soldier take 5 soldiers out of the fight. That being said, yes marksmanship is the most vital part however, you can't dismiss the variables. This round in the article sounds like it mY kill a deer if the shot is a bit off. However I know from experience that if my 7mm wsm nicks a branch it will still hit the mark. I wouldn't be so sure with the lighter load of the 5.56. Bottom line a bad shot or circumstances will have a bad outcome.

By jthacker3 Thursday, November 03, 2011 10:53 AM

I agree th 5.56 is a smaller shell then a lot that are used all I am saying is that it will work does work. as for trusting it yes i would but it all comes down to if there are circumstances that would affect your shot weather ,wind, or tree branches you probably should not me making a shot . As with any weapon line of sight.

By dkehrer Thursday, November 03, 2011 7:19 PM

Your welcome to the swamp to find a perfectly clear shot, if you can see the head or vitals its clear enough.

By jsard Thursday, November 03, 2011 9:05 PM

The .223 is one of the best cartridges I have used for deer. I have used that cartridge as well as the 22.250 in 55 grain to drop deer dead,one shot one kill. I have also used a "cannon" chambered in .300win. 150 grain sp,which in my "opinion" didnt even match the wound channel of even the 22.250. The round struck just behind the front right shoulder,went straight thru the very center of the front left shoulder,keep in mind this was right at 298 yards,the deer ran atleast 80 to 100 yards before expiration,as my hunting buddy and I went to retrieve this "marathon running" 8 pointer we both had the same opinion of my "cannon", it woke up the entire woods,it had kicked me harder than a 3 legged ninja,and it left an entry and exit wound the size of a carbon arrow fitted witha field point!!! I guess what im getting at here is, size doesnt matter its where u place the shot that matters!!

By Tony.Inde Saturday, November 05, 2011 10:01 AM

Of course it is possible to achieve clean kills with a .223 (shot placement and bullet construction) but it is right on the line. If you're using an AR use the excuse to buy an upper in a more appropriate caliber. My 1st choice would be 30 rem AR, with the same velocity and hitting power as a .308 w/16" barrel and same bullet. You might be saying the same thing when you don't recover that twelve pointer!

By lynchsm Saturday, November 05, 2011 8:41 PM

Dkehrer , 5.56 is not the same as .223, the nato round runs higher pressure and has slightly different case dimensions. But thats beside the point. .223 or 5.56x45 are more than enough to take deer, neither are desighned to wound and not kill and you should never take a shot that isn't clear so nicking branches should not be a consideration. Its a great hunting round and if everyone could shoot as well as they claim they would have no problems taking white tail with it. If you can't shoot good enough you should be practicing more anyways.

By wizardsmark73 Sunday, November 06, 2011 2:35 PM

I been hunting deer on and off for years using anything from the .223 up to .300 and like my other colleagues it boils down to placement. Get 'em good and they will go down. But, for long distances such as 300 yards probably not your best round but it will do the job. Used a Ruger mini-14 not the most accurate rifle but I have dropped three good sized 5 points with just one shot.

By kchristman2 Monday, November 07, 2011 9:46 PM

hello eveyone the AR15.223 is the chose of gun i us to go hunting with my brother in law like to use the REM270.

By levesque Monday, November 07, 2011 10:34 PM

SHOT PLACEMENT is key, I've shot deer and bear up to 300 + yard, all head shot , I never had to look for my deer/or bear, to many hunters out there with big guns and no practice, they figure if they it the target it will go down because of the caliber they use, WRONG, I spend on average about 200 to 400 dollars a year practicing at the range, SHOT PLACEMENT is everything, in my book u sould not be allow to hunt if you cannot it bull eye at 300 yards, that would take care of all those wounded animal I see out there

By bdn3 Tuesday, November 08, 2011 8:11 AM

I have taken several does with my model 700 in 22-250 . All head shots and no tracking

By dcarter11 Tuesday, November 08, 2011 4:31 PM

just to ad my own 2 cents in this I have read some of the comments and i agree with most of them meaning all the one I have read because of time being short I have not read all of them.
All I can sat is that the level of topograpy and forestry and or veggitation is always something to consider when chosing what weapon to take hunting with you. over 100 yds you need something that packs alittle more punch. 100yds or less smaller and slower is fine. I know that I can shoot the bottom of a soda pop can out at 500yds with an M16A2 or AR15 but I would not chose that weapon for range farther than 100yds on a deer because it just does not have the potency to make a clean kill at much farther than that. I would chose a larger weapon even if it is slower.... and yes shot placement is every thing. .223 is great for hunting in thick woods or brush. not that great for flat grassy planes. I would not shoot at any thing farther than 300yds with my favorite riffle which shoots a 7.62x54r 203 grains. but that is just because its heavy and slow.

By ALWENTWORTH Wednesday, November 09, 2011 9:49 AM

My grandson shot a deer on Nov. 6, 2011 using my TCA Encore with a 26" .223 barrell. He was using a Barnes reloaded 60 gr V Max bullet. The entry hole was the size on an index finger and the exit the size of a silver dollar. The heart was shattered and rib damage was massive at exit. The deer was shot at approx. 20 yd and dropped within 10 feet. I was amased at the damage the small bullet did. I no longer am leery about using this caliber.

By jutz Wednesday, November 09, 2011 10:24 AM

My son took his first buck this weekend with a Remington Mohawk in 222 shooting a 50 grain Core Lokt Soft Point bullet. It went through the heart and lungs and it ran about 25 yards and toppled over. All about shot placement

By RLReed Thursday, November 10, 2011 12:03 AM

My 12 year old son has taken 4 deer in the past 3 years with his 223 Rossi and he has not lost a deer yet.He shoots a soft point bullet but not the cheap rounds.

By ihook Thursday, November 10, 2011 6:42 PM

my father hunted religiously for years with a 218 bee....if you are not familiar with this caliber, it's much smaller than a 223....he bought it in 1930 something and it cam with2 boxes of shells at 50 a box...he swears he has only 8 shells left after all these years and he has nearly a deer for every one shot...i'v seen him shoot to 150 yards and drop a buck with one shot...he shoots 34 grain hollow points by winchester,,,i believe....he's still kickin after 88years....gotta love him..

By d_foxtrot Friday, November 11, 2011 11:15 AM

i've been reloading for a few years. i use barnes varmint grenade 55gr in my .223, i found that it is just right. at 150 yards it takes my deer out with easy. the best pat is that the meat has little to no damage and the deer does not get back up. it is my opinion that the .223 bullet with the right tip and charge for a reloader would be the best .223 round for deer hunting or just hunting any animal.

By bbbuck1 Friday, November 11, 2011 5:42 PM

i have taken four deer in four years with my mini-14 in .223. all taken with one shot including my 152-3 net typical. the .223 is a great caliber for whitetail.

By mestness Friday, November 11, 2011 7:26 PM

I shoot .223 hollowpoints. Last year I took a 250 lb. 9 pointer by shooting it thru the neck. The hp. expanded and destroyed the windpipe. The big buck stood for a few seconds, wobbling, but since he could'nt catch a breath he could'nt run either. I routinely practice from 100 to 200 yds at the bottom of pop cans. Yes, bullet placement is everything! Practice, practice, practice and have a sturdy rest. The .223 is only as good as the hunter pulling the trigger. For really good practice take your .223 out and shoot some coyotes or prairie dogs. Have fun and good luck this season!! Marviowa

By cpearson4 Saturday, November 12, 2011 4:03 PM

I dropped an 8 point white tail buck this morning with a 223 single shot. The ammo was standard 223 ammo purchased at Wal-Mart. 223 rifles are fine for killing deer as long as you know how your weapon acts during firing, and you pay attention to your aim.

By ldougherty Saturday, November 12, 2011 5:58 PM

I personally have not shot a deer with a .223. Like in some of the above comments, the Military has. I was in the Service, the M-4 platform outfitted with the right optics and training can be very deadly out to 500 yds. I do know there is rifle twist variations that can be done to accept a 70gr. bullet to reach out to 600+ yds. For those of you that would like to hunt larger game with a .223, that might be an option. Good Luck.

By disguisedasatree Sunday, November 13, 2011 10:51 AM

Using a premium ammunition is very important in my opinion. My 13 year old step son has been hunting with a .223 this year because he is comfortable shooting it unlike larger calibers and he is familiar with the rifle. He dropped one this morning in its tracks with a barnes to the chest.

By Anonymous User Monday, November 14, 2011 10:07 AM

The .223 is considered a light load for taking deer because it really is. However, if a person does some target practice before season there shouldn't be any real problem. There are a plethora of loads available in .223 & it really comes down to doing your homework. A tight grouping .223 rifle with adequate barrel length and optimal twist should suffice for killing any size whitetail, black tail or mule deer at ranges of 100+ yards.

Ballistics are very important and a firearm capable of using +P ammo will likely be your better choice in this caliber. The hunter should always keep in mind the location where they will be using the .223 because it isn't a great brush gun like the .35 or other larger calibers. At the same time it may not be the best choice on a real windy day or heavy rain but that's all part of the science of hunting.

In all honesty a .380 ACP will kill a deer just as fast as a .454 casull. If a person was up in a deer stand with a big buck standing just 20 yards or so away, i can guarantee that even a .17HMR would drop that deer.

The bottom line is it's all about shot placement, more so than ballistics or anything else. A head shot or perfect vitals hit doesn't care if it's a 40gr .223 traveling at 3,500 fps with 1,000 ft/lb of energy or a 95 gr .380 moving 1,000 fps with only 200 ft/lb of energy. The end result is the same - dead.

I would never deer hunt with a .380 but the fact of the matter is that in my state it is actually legal to use. "Any center firing ammunition" ( barrel length aside) These people talking about 500 + yard shots on deer with a .223 is nuts. At 500 yards a typical .223 is only carrying 200 ft/lb of energy which is on par with a .380 @ 20 yards. But i personally would never shoot at a deer that far away.

as far as a .223 goes, windage and bullet drop almost guarantee that you will completely miss or wound the animal unless you practice such shots often...

we could have the same argument with about anything. I have been told that a 7.62x.39mm is not a good choice for deer hunting but it in my own experience it is actually better suited than a .30-30 a 7.62x39 is a great round for taking everything from lanky coyotes to massive bears.

By tjbirdman Friday, December 02, 2011 6:16 AM

This is a very interesting conversation/brag list. I am a believer in 'any gun can take down anything if the shot is placed right' (BB guns and air-soft being the exception). I am really curious if anyone has a true story to tell about something similar to the following examples.

Using a .17 HMR (or similar) round to take down a deer or bigger (a buddy of mine loves to use his on our coyote hunts)

Using a .223 or smaller to take down anything bigger than a deer(elk, cougar, bear, etc.)

If you have a story I would love to read it here. It would also illustrate the principle explained in the article, that shot placement is more important that caliber.

By HSHERIFF Wednesday, December 07, 2011 2:08 PM

Unfortunately, the .223 is not legal here in Colorado for big game.

By homeplus Thursday, January 12, 2012 10:10 PM

if you shoot a .223 into water you can judge the splash vs. the kill damage on game...Less splash equals more processed Game.

By pcasteel Saturday, February 25, 2012 9:27 PM

I bought a Remington VTR in .223 caliber and decided to try it deer hunting this year. I killed three with it ranging at 100 yards, 150 yards, & 250 yards. None ever moved out of they're tracks. I had to look very close to even see were the bullet impacted as there was no blood anywhere. When we dressed the deer is when we actually saw the damage. The heart and lungs looked like sausage meat all the blood was inside the chest cavity. I guess it was a good thing they didn't run as I would have no blood trail. The gun is fun to shoot and easy to make precision shots. This afternnon I took it on my first coyote hunt and killed one at 75 yards. The rounds I use are 70 grain Hornady.

By littlebrotherc1 Saturday, April 21, 2012 9:00 PM

I own a Olympic arms K8 Mag which is chambered in 25 WSSM. It can launch a 115 gr at 3000 fps or a 120 gr around 2900 fps. There are many different calibers offered in the AR, all the way up to the 300 Remington Ultra Short Mag. Which is about the same size as a 300 WSM. So if you want a larger caliber in an AR style rifle they're out there. I have approx 150 Rd's through the gun and have had "0" malfunctions. The 25 WSSM is very close in performance to the 25-06. Whatever you want to shoot with a 25-06 bolt gun, you can shoot with an AR style 25WSSM. NUF SAID

By odie77 Monday, December 17, 2012 12:23 PM

Proper shot placement is far more important than what's stamped on the back of a cartridge case. However, this doesn't negate taking into consideration the appropriate limitations of that cartridge based on bullet type and ballistics. Just because a bear of any type has been killed with a .22LR, .22 WM, .223 Rem., etc in a life or death situation doesn't make it an appropriate bear slayer... intentionally hunting a bear with such may or most likely will cost you your life! That being said, the .223 Remington is completely capable and adequate for deer-size game WITH (and I emphasize the word "WITH")the proper bullets. I once saw a deer that was shot with a .223 Rem. by a hunter who was using bullets best suited for varmints. The result was a surface wound almost half the size of the deer! Fortunately there was enough of the bullet left to penetrate the lung/heart region that the deer succumbed to its wounds after running almost 100yds. I feel the hunter is best suited using as powerful of an appropriate caliber based on game type, as the hunter can comfortably shoot. If recoil is an issue then definitely step down. Even though the .223 Remington is completely adequate, I prefer something with a little more horsepower because I definitely prefer an entrance AND exit hole consistently. Also being a human being I am not a perfect shot 100% of the time, (unlike the implication some posters give) and in the event my bullet happens to go slightly astray of its intended mark the extra bullet weight,size and additional energy is added insurance. No... I do not use a magnum for deer hunting, just one of the old time tested and traditional cartridges that is more than capable of anchoring a deer at distances farther than 99% have any business shooting at (300+). As a hunter I am greatly disturbed by some of the comments posted on here by others claiming to use bullets designed for varmints on deer as well as the post advocating shooting into water and those who are shooting at the head of a deer or any other big-game animal 300yds+ away. You sir are breaking a rule of gun safety and the others are being irresponsible and unethical. Game animals move unlike a fixed paper target... imagine that you are off by just an inch or two and you miss the brain and blow off a deer's lower jaw sentencing it to a horrible death by starvation if it doesn't succumb to its injuries by bleeding to death. And then to get on a site such as this and brag about doing such things... it makes me sick and I would be ashamed of myself! All hunters owe it to the game they hunt to ONLY take ethical shots. Honestly, I would never aim for the head of a big-game animal unless it was a matter of life and death or I had a shotgun loaded with buckshot within 25 yds max! A responsible hunter will take shots that provide the MOST room for error and that means the "boiler room" only. I only hope that I never have the displeasure of meeting such people as they are a disgrace to the true outdoors-men and outdoors-women.