Hunting Forum

Thanks in advance!  Truly - ANY help is greatly appreciated.

I recently purchased my first "pre-owned" rifle.  It is an AK-47.  I had it out for its first day (with me as the owner anyway) at the range yesterday.  Using factory loads.  I was able to draw the slide back and chamber a round without issue.  I pulled the trigger and got the appropriate "bang".  This was followed by a cycled slide and shell ejection.

This was the end of what I expected.

I took aim to place my next shot and upon pulling the trigger...  I got nothing.  No "bang", no "click", no nothing.  So I actuated the slide back and the unfired round ejected.  I let go again and another went into the chamber.  Then, "bang" it went.  Then on the next attempt - nothing again.

So - all seems to be in order here except for the fact that when the slide goes back upon firing, it is enought to empty AND reload the chamber, but just not enough to knock the internal hammer back.

Concern #1 is...  Did I buy a beat up lemon?  On this, I can say the rifle is not ragtag.  It wasn't the cleanest I have ever seen, but there was no damage to be found anywhere.  Barrell was in good shape inside and out.  The shots I did get out of it were true and on target.

Concern #2 is...  Is this fixable?  A spring perhaps?  Perhaps something with the nozzle that channls the back-pressure to work the piston back?  It should be known that prior ro going to the range, I had this rifle broken down and cleaned (VERY thoroughly).  I lubed the appropriate parts in the appropriate manner as well.  I should add to that while I certainly don't want to pretend I am an expert on AK-47s just yet, everything I saw while it was apart looked to be in good order.

On a side note:  One thing I have noticed about this is there have been multiple times where I have worked the slide back, whie empty, and it caught (as it should) in the open position.  The problem is that 1 out of 5 times I do so, it catches but then releases all by it self.  It seems a breeze would cause it to release.  I mention this too as I am not certain if that means anything or not.

Thanks so much for your help.  If you have any questions, please ask.  I will get the answers you need ASAP.

 

WOW - so many things it could be from a head space issue to dirty ammo. When you ejected the first unfired round were there any signs of a firing pin strike - even a slight one?

I had one that had a match barrel and that gun did NOT like cheap ammo. First thing I would do is clean the chamber out. Make sure there isn't any dirt, grit, rust etc. Check the firing pin to be sire it isn't broken or chipped. Then make sure your ammo is clean and grit free. You might even buy a different box of ammo. I suggest you have a qualified gunsmith check it out. Probably nothing but you never know.

Best of luck - is really hard to diagnose without inspecting it.

John

My suggestion to start with is to do a complete teardown and cleaning paying particular attention to cleaning the chamber. As I explained in another post I use a chamber brush with a piece of cleaning rod cut off 12" long and then use my cordless drill to really clean the chamber after a soaking with a good quality bore cleaner> I personally use the Gunslick foaming cleaner and after applying it I let it set 15 minutes the get after it with the brush and drill. Most likely this will correct your problem but if not come back and post again here and let us know. I should have mentioned that you also need to make sure the gas tube is clean as well.

sounds like a soft cycle situation..not enough gas to completely cycle the gun thus not cocking it for the next round..several things can cause this 1 dirty gas tube, 2 weak or dirty return spring..3 damage to the firing pin (althoght this is not a soft cycle) 4 wimp shooting or forward pushing the gun during the fire cycle...all of thses except #3 will or can cuase the problem you mentioned...also sounds like you may have a dirt/crud problem especially with the extractor/ejector...

Nice job examining the problem, Keep them clean.

Is the action cocking on the dud-fires, or is the hammer not cocked? That will tell you is it is short-cycling or not. You may have a worn firing pin (easily fixed) or an extractor that isn't going over the shell rim all the time, thus making the action not fully clsong (does it extract each time okay)?

Just saw this one, made me laugh when I saw what is wrong with my AK. If you see it as the antis do, you have one. And it has been adressed, your bolt may not be going back into battery, if off a little bit it could cause the hammer not to strike the pin. AR and the M16 had/have those problems, that is why they have the forward assist. Not that common in the AK, but it can happen. Slap the carrier lever forward a few times holding the rifle in a safe direction, then aim and fire. There could be some fouling in the chamber causeing it not to close fully, try cleaning with a solvent that removes lacquer, be careful about the finish. But clean the crap out of that camber, with somthing that removes lacquer or varnish. The fireing pin may be sticking, you can clean it with somthing like B12, the whole bolt after removal from the gun, it could be gummed up as well.
I am not a gun smith, But I did just work a gun that had been handed down. Not to bad at first glance, but it would not shoot at all, and was cleaned, it did about the same thing you are talking about. After taking it apart it was a mess, the pin would barely slide back and forth, the chamber was a mess. A very good compete cleaning had it fireing every round, like a sewing mech.

***UPDATE***  Just wanted to share a little more with the group here who has been kind enough to offer their help...

1.  Ammo I was shooting was clean, grit free and freshly removed from the factory box.

2.  There has been some question about the striking of the firing pin.  Other than the first, manually cycled, shot - there have been no second stikes occuring with the firing pin.  Not normal ones or even slight ones.  The spent shell ejects, the fresh round is chambered, upon trigger pull - there is nothing.  no pin being struck or anything.  Just a dead trigger.

3.  Cleaning - and understandably so, seems to be a hot issue.  I did brak it down.  I did pull the bolt apart.  Did an inside and out on the chamber, barrel, and gas port.  ADMITTEDLY, I did NOT try the drill idea mentioned earlier.  That sounds interesting and I may do so.  I thought I was pretty thorough, however, in what I did do prior to taking it out.  

To re-state...  Every part of the firing cycle happens precisely as it should EXCEPT that the internal hammer/pin is not reset during the cycle.

This being said...  Any additional thoughts?  Ideas?

THANKSS SO MUCH! 

My buddy and I had the exact same problem with sks.We were told to get the gas tube out and clean the crap outta it.When we got the tube out it was caked with carbon. I cleaned it all up , put it back into the weapon and never had another problem. So when the Ak did the same thing, we just cleaned the gas tube,with the exact same results. Sometimes as i have heard you may have to replace the tube as well, which is normally obtained online for a small fee. hope this helps

Well we know it is clean. I have a AK here before me. I see maybe two problems: The presure of the hammer againest the bolt carrier holds the carrier and bolt back. I can see how if the hammer and or carrier are worn it would not hold the carrier back, or to much lub.

The not fireing is another, The sear could be the problem. If for some reason it is not releaseing when the trigger is released, the hammer can not be released after fireing/ cycling. The hammer spring comes back and over the trigger and sear pin, then lock over two prongs on the trigger,That pulls the sear back as the trigger is released. If that spring is bent down ward instead slightly up ward it could cuase the sear not to pull back enough, just catching the hammer. the travel is not that much to keep it from pulling back. Have a look at your hammer spring, and look for somthing small under those two prongs, that would keep the sear from pull back enough. Aggresive cleaning or some thing could have happen that bend the spring. But Iam thinking it has something to do with the sear not pulling back. Or something is keeping the trigger from moveing fully forward after release.

I don't know if you would want to try this. Fire the gun with the dust cover off. If it is a soft cycle or the sear that is not pulling back you could see it. You could actually see if it were soft cycleing with the cover on by looking in the slot behind the carrier after fireing the gun. You would see the hammer up at the back of the carrier but more than likly in that case you would have a slam fire. With the cover off you could tell if the sear was holding the hammer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eh-Pd0vOdKA

You could see if the sear/disconnect was disengaging or continued to hold the hammer back. As you said there is no sound of the hammer or any sound when you pull the trigger on the second round. Look to see if you see anything, a piece of old patch, brass such as that, that could be blocking the trigger from resetting and not releaseing the sear. If you can find nothing that can be cleaned,cleared from the trigger assimbly. Letting a trusted gun smith look at it would a very good move.

I might add AKs do not really have a bolt hold back, the pressure of the hammer spring pushes the hammer againest the bottom of the carrier, slowly pullling the carrier back and lightly sliding it forward, can cuase it to lock back, but as they wear they stop locking back or better said hanging. lub will allow it to slide without hanging.

that was cool

I GOT IT!!!

So, upon doing much of the things everyone was kind enough to point me towards, my issue is now resolved.

Inside the receiver, around the trigger mechanism, there is a small coil around both sides. At the point where the 2 ends of this coil extend back, the ends rest upon a couple of tabs. ONE of the ends of this coil was not properly resting on top of the tabs, it was instead wedged underneath it. Simply pulling the end back up on top of the tab solved it all. I had it out this morning to check it and had shot after shot after shot. Worked just as it should and (other than a feeding issue with one of the 4 magazines I have) was completely reliable in every regard.

As such - you all certainy have my sincere gratitude for all of your help.

That said - if anyone has any ideas where I might find 2 or 3 of the 30 round magazines for this thing at a decent price, I am all ears!

Sincerely - been a life member for quite a long time now, but this was the first "help" I have needed. I am so glad I came here to seek it out. What an awesome group.

THANKS AGAIN!

Just got an e-mail from cheaper than dirt they have all types of mag in stock

congrats mr.KRAMAR....All of are gld to help you...happy shooting

Good job. MW already said happy shooting.

Your gas port or the piston may be badly fouled and this is keeping the action from cyling 100%. It is chambering the new round but the hammer is not cocking unless you manually 100% retract the bolt. AKs usually are firing filthy crap, surplus stuff from the 1960s that is mildly corrossive. And we still get crap out of the Kyber Pass loaded as some variations of "Tula" or "BEar" or the like. Then they laquer-coat the steel cases to prevent rust. This stuf melts and gets rammed into the chamber and up into the bore and eventually you get laquer in the port. First thing to do is a total field-strip and clean every part well with solvent, and even chip away in nooks and crannies with a pick of some sort to get the crud out. LIGHTLY lube with just a hint of oil on the piston and wipe off excess so it doesn't collect fouling. Ad rop or two of oil on the action rails in the fram and you should find it firing like a champ. If that does not work you have a mechanical issue somewhere.

Posted By M. Kramarczyk Jr. on 16 Jan 2013 12:26 PM
I GOT IT!!!

So, upon doing much of the things everyone was kind enough to point me towards, my issue is now resolved.

Inside the receiver, around the trigger mechanism, there is a small coil around both sides. At the point where the 2 ends of this coil extend back, the ends rest upon a couple of tabs. ONE of the ends of this coil was not properly resting on top of the tabs, it was instead wedged underneath it. Simply pulling the end back up on top of the tab solved it all. I had it out this morning to check it and had shot after shot after shot. Worked just as it should and (other than a feeding issue with one of the 4 magazines I have) was completely reliable in every regard.

As such - you all certainy have my sincere gratitude for all of your help.

That said - if anyone has any ideas where I might find 2 or 3 of the 30 round magazines for this thing at a decent price, I am all ears!

Sincerely - been a life member for quite a long time now, but this was the first "help" I have needed. I am so glad I came here to seek it out. What an awesome group.

THANKS AGAIN!

Thanks Shi, he had not found the problem yet when I posted this; "Shi did you see the tread about the AK 47 Problem, you are the best to comment on that question"

But the one half of the hammer spring, which goes back to the trigger reset, being off would that keep it from having enough tention to reset the trigger, or could it have been getting under the prongs on the trigger? 

If the hammer were to follow the carrier and bolt back as they closed, could it cause an out of battery slam fire. The AK realy has nothing to stop that. The pin is free floating, with no springs or stops. And nothing on the carrier or bolt once the carrier passes the hammer to prevent an out of battery fireing. 

Ah, I didn't read the entire thread obviously. Main thing is it is resolved. Nice thing abt the AK is it was designed to be Russian peasant-proof and loose enough you can lube it with gravel.