Hunting Forum

welll.... there a basic problem with that. If I know there is one somewhere and I'm nutz enough to do something like that in the first place, that guard has about zero chance unless they are in a bullet proof enclosure, in which case they're pretty useless anyhow.

Put one guard anywhere and anyone can take them out. Wouldn't solve a thing it just sounds good.

Here's my take on the whole subject. Take it or leave it, I don't intend to get under anybody's skin. It all comes to the simple fact that guns don't kill people, idiots do. (This is gonna be a long one folks! Hence my "LWB" signature,) AND the media s-o-o only gives one-sided reporting. There are alot of good posts here on this topic, and alot of very good points made. To add to them, I agree with most of them. As with any other major(Negative) controversial issue that America deals with, it is always the honest and responsible/respectable ones that take the cruxt of the issue. Prime example is driving "priviledges". (And I quoted that for a reason) There are so many irresponsible/illegal drivers out there, it is pathetic. Yet, instead of addressing those issues agressively and "specifically" (Again, I qoute for a reason.), the authorities crack down on "Reqiurements" for honest and responsible drivers with some unfounded gumption that it will make things better. WTF! Why in the help would they wanna crack down on those that are already obiding by the rules !? Professional drivers are subject to annual qualifications, random drug testing, extra licensing fees to hold a professional license, driving logs, and (in many states) restrictions for use of cellphones while driving. JUST TO EARN A LIVING!!! Yet common folk/mainly teens are freely driving and talking/texting and causing major accidents AND NEEDLESS deaths "JUST BECAUSE" they own a valid license. (with no additional requirements.) And further stated is TOOOOO many of them either don't have a license at all OR are driving without or on a revoked licence. I won't go too deep on repeat drunk drivers, but all too many have multiple convictions, and still drive.With or without a license. (10 times is the highest I recollect to date. ) Many are even driving to and from the courthouses after sentencing without a license. WHY! Yet a few "Irresponsible" idiots perform the "Gun" crimes and now the world is in a flurry. I have the utmost sympathy for the victims, and feel the grief that they endure. The media batters the fact that another gun has killed an innocent victim, but they never address the fact that the gun was owned/obtained by a person that should have never had it in the first place. They push for stiffer gun laws, but not for those that are not responsible enough to own one. They belittle those of us that "play by the book". The openong comment on this forum sums it all up. In the numbers, statistics, or whatever you want to see. Responsible gunowners don't commit the horrifying crimes that the media reports. IF so, it is so isolated that it could not even compare to the licensing issue I mentioned earlier. I hear too little of incidents where a "Qualified" gun owner intraveens and neutralizes an altercation. "Without firing a round" ! Any GI out there can probably see where I am coming from, or any other responsible gun owner. But anybody that cant get the picture is either a liberalist, or so selfcentered and ignorant, that what they hear in the news, is what they want to hear. This is just my 2 cents.

We have armed cops in the schools here, and they are the biggest bullies in the school. I believe the best option is one that the NRA probably won't mention, but will support, allowing teachers with a ccw to carry while in the schools. The cops here in Hampton's schools would be the first ones to run screaming like a little girl if a shooter did show up!

exactly what I said to the wife during dinner rt.

Missouri is looking at a law to allow teachers with a CCW permit to carry in school. Several of the big city school districts and teachers have said they don't like the idea. One armed person could drastically change the outcome of these tragedy's in our schools. The people doing these things are not only mal-adjusted, but total cowards. If not cowards they wouldn't kill themselves before they could be overcome. Now that (Yo-Mama, Blindstine) and the rest of the gun haters are on the war path, where do we draw the line between weapons and sporting arms? If it's considered a weapon they will want it banned.
Steve Albers
L.M. NAHC, NRA, Hunter and Bow Hunter Ed. Instructor, Patriot

RT and steve; your thoughts about teachers carrying are the exact same thing I said when this whole ordeal was originally reported. I said it should be a required qualification to teach, AND the individual (teacher) should have to go through the same psycho evaluation as law enforcement before gaining the authorization. I further thought that ALL weapon transfers, be it commercial or private, should be conducted through some sort of authority organization. Such as the NRA or whatever one might be comfortable with. But that brought up counter thought that "Then big brother will know what I own". I say so be it. I AM a responsible owner, and have nothing to hide. I'm the good guy following the rules. And if word get out that I own these weapons, it also sends a message that I am willing to use them if need be. If a slug knows my neighbor doesn't own any guns and I do, who's house do you think they will try to hit? We can put law upon law into effect to address the abuse of weapons, but where will it get us? The exact same place as where we are now. The problem isn't putting the correct law in place, it's coming up with a way to make the slugs follow or obide by the one laws that hve been and already are put into place. It's the same as illegal drug laws. Feds outlawed them decades ago, yet today countless people still die every year from use, and in the process of sales deals gone bad. There are even cases of drugs being forced into someone just to kill them. Very sad! Laws aren't the prescription drugs to cure societies ailements. "Personal Responsibility" in the individuals of the same society is the cure. Unfortunately, our wishes for that utopia will never come true.

I was talking to a retired service member the other day and the subject came up about putting armed guards in schools .He has wrote to our state congressmen about it .He has a good point to his argument .He has suggested using retire MP'S from the military for the jobs . Most after retiring are to old for the boarder patrol as most are over35 when they retire .Most take jobs as private security jobs .They work for anyone that will hire them in that capacity.So why not use them in that capacity .

Unfortunately guys, Americans also have the right "not to carry?" Not every teacher will go along with the CCW idea and to "force" a teacher to carry will never happen in this lifetime. We need to beef up the front defense with "responsible, highly trained, law enforcement", not your average beat cop, no offense to anyone. If they manage to cross the front lines, yes it would be nice to have those teachers who agree to carry, ready to cover the rear, per say. Metal detectors would also be a part of the equation. We have hidden camera's in grocery stores and hire folks to watch them, wouldn't our schools be more important at the present time?

I am a Habilitation Specialist and teach developmentally disabled clients for NY state, I cannot carry my gun at my work because I work at a state run facility. Hmmm? We deal with some pretty disgruntled parents at times and the thought sometimes crosses our minds that things "could" go wrong? You can't fix stupid!

anyone can take out one guard. Period. We going to pay for a cop in every classroom? I highly doubt it. You can have all of the metal detectors and cameras that you want. By then if it's a nut, it's too late.

Just the fact that one knows there will be resistance, it may never occur? Be optomistic Steve, it's better than nothing, which is presently getting our kids killed? Suggestions?

Posted By mowgle on 15 Dec 2012 08:24 AM
Also you NEVER hear where a gun owner has SAVED people. It is just not news that 4 thousand times a year a gun owner has protected someone or their home.

THAT IS VERY TRUE... THE ONLY PLACE THAT ANYTHING IS POSTED ABOUT ANY OF THAT IS IN THE NRA MEMBERS BOOK THE RIFLEMAN MAGAZINE BUT , I TO HAVE NOT EVER SEEN IT ON THE NEWS OR ON TV AT ANYTIME.. IN THE MAGAZINE IT TELL'S ALL ABOUT THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE CONFRONTED PEOPLE BRAKING IN THERE HOME'S AND MOST OF THEM ARE WOMAN AND SOME MEN BUT IT HAS HAPPEND ALL OVER THE US AND YOU CAN READ IT IN THE RIFLEMAN MAGAZINE  PUT OUT BY THE NRA EVERY MONTH.. SO IT PISS'S ME OFF THAT YOU NEVER HEAR IT ON THE NEWS OR SEE OR HEAR IT ON TV TO..

Posted By ternera1 on 14 Dec 2012 07:10 PM
The subject was gun control. What do you think is going to happen after todays killing of little kids? All kind of shoit is going to hit the fan.

MAY BE YOU VOTED FOR HIM BUT , I DIDN'T AND HE WIIL NEVER BE MY PRESIDENT .. I SERVED THIS COUNTRY FOR 17 PLUS YRS IN THE USMC AS A SNIPER SO DONT EVER SAY THAT , I VOTED FOR THAT COON FROM KENYA.. AND FOR ALL OF YOU THAT HAVE SERVED OR ARE SERVING  GOD BLESS ALL OF US.. USMC FOR LIFE AND FREEDOM.. SEMPER FI..

Posted By Shootin'J on 21 Dec 2012 07:38 PM
Here's my take on the whole subject. Take it or leave it, I don't intend to get under anybody's skin. It all comes to the simple fact that guns don't kill people, idiots do. (This is gonna be a long one folks! Hence my "LWB" signature,) AND the media s-o-o only gives one-sided reporting. There are alot of good posts here on this topic, and alot of very good points made. To add to them, I agree with most of them. As with any other major(Negative) controversial issue that America deals with, it is always the honest and responsible/respectable ones that take the cruxt of the issue. Prime example is driving "priviledges". (And I quoted that for a reason) There are so many irresponsible/illegal drivers out there, it is pathetic. Yet, instead of addressing those issues agressively and "specifically" (Again, I qoute for a reason.), the authorities crack down on "Reqiurements" for honest and responsible drivers with some unfounded gumption that it will make things better. WTF! Why in the help would they wanna crack down on those that are already obiding by the rules !? Professional drivers are subject to annual qualifications, random drug testing, extra licensing fees to hold a professional license, driving logs, and (in many states) restrictions for use of cellphones while driving. JUST TO EARN A LIVING!!! Yet common folk/mainly teens are freely driving and talking/texting and causing major accidents AND NEEDLESS deaths "JUST BECAUSE" they own a valid license. (with no additional requirements.) And further stated is TOOOOO many of them either don't have a license at all OR are driving without or on a revoked licence. I won't go too deep on repeat drunk drivers, but all too many have multiple convictions, and still drive.With or without a license. (10 times is the highest I recollect to date. ) Many are even driving to and from the courthouses after sentencing without a license. WHY! Yet a few "Irresponsible" idiots perform the "Gun" crimes and now the world is in a flurry. I have the utmost sympathy for the victims, and feel the grief that they endure. The media batters the fact that another gun has killed an innocent victim, but they never address the fact that the gun was owned/obtained by a person that should have never had it in the first place. They push for stiffer gun laws, but not for those that are not responsible enough to own one. They belittle those of us that "play by the book". The openong comment on this forum sums it all up. In the numbers, statistics, or whatever you want to see. Responsible gunowners don't commit the horrifying crimes that the media reports. IF so, it is so isolated that it could not even compare to the licensing issue I mentioned earlier. I hear too little of incidents where a "Qualified" gun owner intraveens and neutralizes an altercation. "Without firing a round" ! Any GI out there can probably see where I am coming from, or any other responsible gun owner. But anybody that cant get the picture is either a liberalist, or so selfcentered and ignorant, that what they hear in the news, is what they want to hear. This is just my 2 cents.

I AGREE !!! WHAT THE HELL ARE THEY DOING ABOUT THE PROBLEM !!! NOTHING !! I HAVE SENT THIS TO THE GOVERNMENT AND TO THE NRA .. A GUN DOESN'T COME OFF A SHELF OR OUT OF A GUN SAFE AND LOAD IT'S SELF AND KILL PEOPLE AND A BEER DOESN'T COME OUT OF A ICE CHEST AND DRINK IT'S SELF AND DRIVE DRUNK SO WHY DO YOU SAY WE NEED TO TAKE EVERY LAWABIDING CITIZEN'S GUN'S AWAY THAT HAS DONE NOTHING TO ANYBODY.. THAT IS JUST OBAMA THE KENYA COON TALKING WITH THE UN ABOUT A TOTAL GUN BAN IN THE USA..

I read somewhere that about 1/3 of our schools had armed guards in them already. But I can't find the source. And also the so called pres removed or cut funding from them last yr.

Posted By GLW on 22 Dec 2012 10:05 PM
Just the fact that one knows there will be resistance, it may never occur? Be optomistic Steve, it's better than nothing, which is presently getting our kids killed? Suggestions?

I understand your point but absolutely zero has been done and face it, this country has had it's share of f'ing idiots going off on a killing spree.

We all know that the so called "Gun Control" laws aren't going to control anything.

My vote is to make CCW a REQUIREMENT if you want to be a teacher. They should have to go through a firearms training program, which includes demonstrating proficiency with the weapon.  When people send their children to school, they put them in the trust of the school to KEEP THEM SAFE!  Cost? The training programs and the weapon. Done.

Some one wants to be a teacher and doesn't like that requirement?  Guess you ain't gonna be a teacher then huh?

Now, even if that were in place, the nutz would just go somewhere else. A church, a shopping mall, anywhere so there is no such thing as a policy or laws or even actual implementation of anything that will solve it.

The real solution is to somehow change our society. Bring back disipline when dealing with children. Teach the to respect people and things. Teach kindness (excuse me please vs will you get out of the way)  Just basic manors. Of course that requires parents who are together and have a joint mission of raising respectable children.  Get rid of the violence everywhere too. It's all these kids see everywhere they look from a VERY young age.

Also the mental health community needs a serious overhaul as well.  These are the solutions, at least the major ones. They aren't going to happen though and even if they did, there would still be a few nut cases that would go off, but far less I think. 

I forgot the country, but I believe it is either in Euurope or the middle east. In that country it is a law that all adult citizens can (And most do) carry guns. And that same country also has the lowest gun related killings in the world. What does that tell you?
CHEROKEE; to address the note on never hearing about people saving lives or stopping altercations while using guns I offer this. I agree with you being that I don't know what part of the country you live in. But here, in Wisconsin, we do ocasionally hear what you mentioned. I'm pretty sure you heard that we passed the cc law late last year. Within 2 months of that being passed, there were 2 or 3 incidents plastered over the news addressing your exact concern. (They may have even gone national) I was actually surprised that the media reported it so well. The ironic thin is that the 2 establishments that the good citizen protected had signs posted that guns were not allowed. After the incidents, those signs were gone. I am a member of the USCCA, and recieve their monthly magazine. There is a section in it that prints reports from around the country of responsible citizens protecting themselves or others and stopping crimes with guns. It's my favorite part of the magazine. 1 of the 2 incidents i mentioned earlier was even in it.

I've heard of that country and can't remember which one it is though. I think it's in Europe. I mean think about it. If you knew everyone was trained and carrying... you gonna pull a gun? You may get a few shots off, but you WILL be going down PDQ.

My vote is to make CCW a REQUIREMENT if you want to be a teacher. They should have to go through a firearms training program, which includes demonstrating proficiency with the weapon. When people send their children to school, they put them in the trust of the school to KEEP THEM SAFE! Cost? The training programs and the weapon. Done.

That would be one way to reduce the number of liberal teachers in our schools. LOL
I don't think we need to go that far but could make it a requirement for all principles and/or vice principles.

One of the arguments against this is that there would be a chance for an enraged student to get control of one of those guns. It would be interesting to know if this had ever happened in any of those schools that had armed security. The liberal media would jump all over that if it did happen.

Here's a peice that contributes to the whole problem in the first place.
The day after that heart-wretching shooting, I was at a local organized gun show and swap meet. I noticed an AP9 and showed some interest in it. The seller stated his price and I took out my cash. He hande me the gun and it was mine at that point. When I asked for the paperwork for my backround check, he stated that there wasn't any. "It is a private transfer", he stated. When I asked for a reciept, he repeated that it was a private transfer and wasn't going to write a reciept. The guy never even asked for my ID. I politely handed him his gun back and kept my money and walked away. Now this was, as I stated, at AN ORGINIZED gun show. For all I know this guy didn't even have a license to sell firearms! And he's at a gun show! I mentioned the incident to the coordinators as I left, but don't know if anything came of it. I'm still ticked at knowing how easy this guy made it to obtain such a deadly assult pistol.

Here's another idea I had. I know it is gonna sound real far-fetched, but it sounds so good I felt I had to post it. Gov't takes all these criminals and puts them in uniform, forms a unit, sends them to "The Big Sandbox" and turns them loose on the enemy. Anybody remember the movie "The Dirty Dozen"? Same cinerio. When you think about it, what loss is there in the end? They either kill the enemy, or eachother. Win-Win. And as far as spending our tax dollars to do so goes, I believe it wouldn't be any more than prosecuting them and then "pampering" them in prisons for the rest of their lives. Instead of "The Dirty Dozen", they would be tagged "The Dirty Million Bastar@s".