Hunting Forum

IT was a jest poke.. We have had to give it to our own troops that where in bad shape.. Dale will get-over-it..   I just hope that the man that wants to load the Barnes bullets get's the message that you can only use certain " Powders when loading the BARNES NON-LEAD BULLETS.. That was the only thing, I was trying to get through to him or anybody else.. Like, I said , I was in the USMC as a Sniper for awhile and did alot of reloading and shooting of the non-lead bullets from different manufacture's and, I do know what, I'm doing when it come's to reloading ammo be it for rifle, pistol, or shotgun, I have loaded it all for a very long time and was only trying to help the man live through the experence of reloading .. So if Dale can't take a few poke's he needs to not say anything.. I have taken a few poke's my self and, I just look at it as a joke .. So don't take it personal.. Retired USMC Sniper, LM National Match Shooters ASSC. ..              And if they don't want the help then don't ask for it !!!!!!!

Barnes manual #4 has data for 180 gr. and
H4895
IMR4064
IMR4320
AA2700
Big Game
Win 760
H414
H4350
R 19
IMR4831

The story hear is Barnes bullets can use many powders and you can use H4831 with barnes bullets by starting with the IMR 4831 data and working up.
H4831 is a little slower powder than the IMR 4831 and will produce a little less pressure with the same powder charge.

Note ; when you use the IMR data. Start off with lightest charge listed. Then work up from there as you check for signs of pressure. You would think that because the solid copper bullet is the same weight as as lead core everything as far as pressure goes would be the same. Not so. Because the solid has less give than a lead core as it contacts the rifling.

The TSX and TTSX bullets have the grooves so are not as hard to load as the first ones without. I have loaded TSX and TTSX bullets in 6mm. 6.5. 7. 30 and 338 and found they have no more pressure than regular bullets IN MY RIFLES. Always work up as bigrig advised.

I want to thank everyone that responded to my question. I have choosen to use IMR 4831 and will start working up a load soon. I will keep you all posted as to how things go.

Went out this morning to try out the new load for my .30-06. I used IMR 4831 and loded various powder charges ranging from 53 grains to 54.5 grains. Luck was with me when I tried them this morning. First load tested was the ones loaded with 53 grains. The group was about an inch right in the bullseye. That group should be more that sufficient for deer. Now its time to load up some more and start getting some practice in. Good news is that I won't have to sight it in first.

Hey Cherokee, no offense taken about my sig line. I've been on the internet long enough to have a thick skin. The line actually came from a get well card sent by a nurse friend when I tore up my knees in a tumble down the stairs. I got much more active on this board during my recovery from surgery and the line seemed appropriate at the time. I keep it as a remembrance of her as she has since died from cancer.

OP, glad you got a load that works.

Dale

RHOLCOMB, I don't know where you got the idea that your rifle won't "stabilize" a LIGHTER bullet. It's actually the other way around. Twist rate is figured on weight AND length of a bullet. The longer, heavier bullets need a faster twist rate to stabilize them. So a longer heavier bullet will be stabilized LESS.

The 30-06 is figured around a 180 grain bullet. Also, that means a jacketed LEAD CORE bullet. It will work for heavier bullets, up to 220 grains. 

All-copper bullets like the Barnes, Hornady GMX, and nosler e-tip are longer for any given weight. Length matters more for whether a bullet will be stabilized or not. The GMX and E-tip are actually made of guilding metal, you know the stuff they make jackets out of? Barnes are made of pure copper.

If you have a normal 1-10 twist in your '06, then the lighter bullet could be a bit OVER stabilized.  That CAN lead to problems with getting a---lets say 150 grain lead core bullet to shoot small groups.

As others have noted, using a lighter all copper bullet as opposed to a heavier lead core bullet will give you all the power and  expansion of the heavier bullet. That's because all copper bullets don't shed weight, the weight retention is usually 100% That results in deep penetration.

My rifle does not have a 1-10 twist and I have so far been unable to get any lead bullet under 200 grains to achieve a group under 6". My rifle will shoot 1" or less with the heavier lead bullet. The copper bullet I went with is only .01" shorer than the lead core bullet I was using.

Only shoots 200 grain bullets well? I'd of sent that sucker down the road a LONG time ago.

Anyhow, you seem to have found something that works so good luck on your hunt

Dale

I thought about it when I first started shooting it until I shot a three round group that was almost one hole, all three hole were interlocking together on the grid line of the target. Kind of hard to give up that kind of accuracy. It will still shoot sub MOA groups if I do my part. Unfortunately I don't get to practice as often as I use to.

THANK YOU JTOWNS.. FOR THE SUPPORT.. AND YOUR KNOWLEDGE ABOUT THE SAME THING THAT , I'VE BEEN SAYING THE WHOLE TIME BUT NO ONE WOULD LISSION..  Remember some of us out here have shot for a very long time and some of us have Killed for a very long time.. Retired USMC Sniper , LM National Match Shooters ASSC , LM DU, LM NAHC..

Really? You don't have the 1in10 barrel. Just out of curiosity. What make rifle do you have? And,what IS the twist rate. Now, I can believe that your rifle likes one weight or make of bullet over another. There are a lot of guns that are like that. My -06 likes 165 grain bullets. Factory 150's shoot well. Reloaded 150's don't shoot well. Go figure.

bigrig, the rifle is a Remington 700 BDL, but it is not all original. I bought it at a pawn shop about 10 yers ago and the first thing I noticed after taking it home and cleaning it up was that there had been a few modifications made. The most noticable ws that the trigger, trigger guard and hinged magazine were not factory. The trigger is a fairly wide target trigger that breaks at aobut 2.5 lbs and the trigger guard and hinged floor plate are parkerized not blued. Whie cleaning the barrel I noticed that it is much heavier than a standard sporter barrel but not as heavy as a bull barrel. The rifle also had a metal butt plate and not a rubber recoil pad. The serial number and all other marking on the rifle put the date of manufacture around 1970-71. when my buddy and I first tookit out to try to sight it in we had a variety of different rounds ranging from 150 grains to 180 grains from several different manufacturers. We were unable to find a round that grouped under 5" until we tried some 200 grains spitzers that my buddy had handloaded for his 1903 Springfield. That round, and every other 200 grain bullet I have tried since, grouped just over .75 at 100 yards. Like you said, "Go figure."

YES.. I have the axis camo in 30/06 and it has a 1 in 10 twist but it dose like every thing from the 110gr- the 200gr that , I load for match shooting at 500-800 yrds and they do just fine it all depend's on the load and , I trim all of my cases and allways use the factory crim die to make all of them the same , I also scale all of my loads to the exact same for each.. Retired USMC Sniper.  And this info is for Bigrig and for RHOLCOMB..

I do the same thing. I use a scale for every load so that they have the exact same weight of powder. I also separate the brass by brands of manufacture.