Hunting Forum

Oppose Sfae-Commute bill
Last Post 27 Apr 2012 04:37 PM by TOM IN TENNESSEE. 12 Replies.
AddThis - Bookmarking and Sharing Button Printer Friendly
  •  
  •  
  •  
  •  
  •  
Sort:
PrevPrev NextNext
You are not authorized to post a reply.
Author Messages
ShilohUser is Offline

Shiloh Send Private Message Posts:552
--
21 Mar 2012 11:41 AM
Once again, it has happened.  I have chosen to sit the "Safe Commute Bill" out because while I as a Conservative love the idea of legal protection for citizens having their guns with them, I also as a Conservative love the idea of property right snad property-owners therefore being able to have a say in such matters.  So, without any way to know which side I preferred to win this fight, I was trusting that the Legislators would come out with a good decision I could appreciate.  But, as the TFA alert below shows, this is not the year once again...
___________________________________________

Tennessee Firearms Association, Inc.
Legislative Action Committee


Time to Oppose Senate Sponsor's Proposed Amendment to SB3002?

In a word, YES.

During the last 24 hours, over 4,000 thousands of emails were sent by firearms owners to the General Assembly to support the Employee Safe Commute legislation.  So, what happened?

First, the bills were rolled in the Senate.  Of note, however, the Tennessee Attorney General issued an opinion (No. 12-40)that the Employee Safe Commute legislation is not subject to constitutional attack as an unconstitutional interference with real property rights - but we already knew that.

Second, an announcement was made that the House bills, which were set for this morning, are being rolled because the subcommittee was canceled.  Sounds predictable if you do not want these bills to have any recorded vote.

Third, news reports surfaced Tuesday afternoon, that Sen. Mike Faulk has indicated that he plans to amend his bill.  Amendments apparently demanded by the Governor and Republican leadership in the House and Senate.  According to statements in a Tennessean report (similar reports surfaced in news sources across the state),

Faulk said the new proposal will apply only to people with handgun carry permits and also will contain exceptions suggested by Republican Gov. Bill Haslam and the GOP legislative leadership.

Senate Speaker Ron Ramsey of Blountville has said he wants the measure to apply only to permit holders, and he and fellow Republican House Speaker Beth Harwell of Nashville have called for incorporating several exceptions included in a 2008 Georgia law, such as secure parking areas and visitors' parking spots. Georgia also allows employers to ban workers from bringing weapons onto company property if they have been subject to disciplinary action.

Haslam has said the current measure is "a little too broad."

"The amendments will address the concerns about it being too broad that have been expressed by both speakers and the governor," Faulk told reporters after the meeting Tuesday night. "And then I believe we'll be off and running."

So, Senator Faulk is announcing that he is making amendments in accordance with the demands of Lt. Gov. Ramsey, the Governor, Speaker Beth Harwell and, through them, Big Business.  The proposal, which is yet unseen by those outside the Legislature, would dilute the bill to one so rife with ambiguity that its more likely to result in an effort by firearms owners to stop it than to accept it and perhaps even a court challenge on ambiguity.  For example, a "permit holder only" provision would prohibit those who recreationally shoot or hunt from having those types of weapons in their personal vehicles whereas other recreational or sporting items such as golf clubs, softball gear, would be allowed.  Similarly, restrictions based on fenced parking areas, employees subject to any prior discipline, etc., do nothing to protect workers who commute to those locations and can cause great confusion on whteher such locations are or are not within the definitions set forth in the anticipated amendment. 

It is a bad concept.  It is nothing but appeasement by these Republican leaders to the "Golden Goose" of corporate money.  It is evidence of their willingness to sacrifice public safety, individual safety and the safety of employees to appease corporations even when the State's Attorney General states in a written opinion that such a law would be fully constitutional and does not constitute a material infringement on property rights.  Can they truly be Pro-Second Amendment if they are willing to trade those rights for mere money from sources that do not even had the right to vote?

It is time to call and email the sponsor himself and ask him to stand true to the constitution and the rights of the citizens.  Ask him to avoid the temptation of bowing to the Golden Goose of Big Business funding which has already apparently had its intended impact on the Governor and Republican Leadership.

I respect Mike Faulk but we need to make sure that he specifically understands the desires of the voters before this proposed amendment (if it is not already a "back room done deal") moves any further.

Senator Mike Faulk

R-Church Hill
District 4 — Claiborne, Grainger, Hancock, Hawkins, Jefferson, and Union Counties

district address

112 East Main Blvd.
Church Hill, TN 37642
Phone: (423) 357-8088

Nashville address

301 6th Avenue North
Suite 10-A Legislative Plaza
Nashville, TN 37243
Phone (615) 741-2061
sen.mike.faulk@capitol.tn.gov
www.faulkforsenate.com

I like my guns towed & crew-served! http://www.nps.gov/stri/ http://www.blockaderunner.com/ http://www.9thky.org/
TOM IN TENNESSEEUser is Offline

TOM IN TENNESSEE Send Private Message Posts:1334
--
22 Mar 2012 01:20 PM
Yeah, Shi, I too have had mixed emotions on this but allowing firearms in a locked vehicle on a business parking lot doesn't seem to violate anyones rights but not allowing them does!
Soddy Daisy Tennessee USA, A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone PROUD PRO STAFFER--www.heirloomgamecalls.com, hand made , hand tuned and hand tested, Hunt ARK ducks with www.smackinquack.com I am an uncompensated, non-attorney spokesperson
CharlieCUser is Offline

CharlieC Send Private Message Posts:282
--
22 Mar 2012 07:07 PM
Tom gets it, the personal right of self protection should never be infringed. No one is wanting to carry outside of their car at work.
ShilohUser is Offline

Shiloh Send Private Message Posts:552
--
09 Apr 2012 11:11 AM
I came down on the "pass it" side today and notified my reps and Gov. The TFA sent out an e-mail that it is now back to "pass it" and so I used its auto-response feature to send the e-mail to everyone on the committeee, Gov. and my State Reps. Mainly, it is time the GOP acts for gun-rights after fighting to win a majority on that issue for so long and then move on to new endeavors.
I like my guns towed & crew-served! http://www.nps.gov/stri/ http://www.blockaderunner.com/ http://www.9thky.org/
TOM IN TENNESSEEUser is Offline

TOM IN TENNESSEE Send Private Message Posts:1334
--
11 Apr 2012 03:25 PM
We will see....big business or freedom in TN....
Soddy Daisy Tennessee USA, A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone PROUD PRO STAFFER--www.heirloomgamecalls.com, hand made , hand tuned and hand tested, Hunt ARK ducks with www.smackinquack.com I am an uncompensated, non-attorney spokesperson
ShilohUser is Offline

Shiloh Send Private Message Posts:552
--
25 Apr 2012 07:57 AM

Tennessee Firearms Association, Inc.
Legislative Action Committee


House Calendar improperly sends Safe Commute to Summer Study

On a vote of 15 to 8, the House Calendar Committee has sent the Safe Commute bill (HB3560) to "summer study" which kills it unless the House Floor votes with a 2/3 margin to recall the bill.  Once again, House Leadership trying to kill the bill with minimal recorded votes.

This is an outrage because this committee has no, none, jurisdiction over the merits of the bill.  It has one job, to move a bill in an orderly fashion to the floor.

It is important to understand that the defeat of this important legislation is at the hands of the House Republican leadership and, from news reports, working with the cooperation of Senate Republican leadership and at the insistence of Gov. Haslam.   

However, it is equally important to understand that the House Republican leadership serves at all times at the pleasure of the House Republican caucus.  The caucus, as a whole, therefore holds the blame for failing to adequately demand that House Republican leadership bring this bill to the floor for a vote on the merits. 

The House Republican caucus can still address this failure on its part by making a recall motion (Rule 53) on the floor of the House this week.  It will be interesting to see if they have the will to do so.

 

I like my guns towed & crew-served! http://www.nps.gov/stri/ http://www.blockaderunner.com/ http://www.9thky.org/
TOM IN TENNESSEEUser is Offline

TOM IN TENNESSEE Send Private Message Posts:1334
--
25 Apr 2012 10:48 AM
Think I will go park in a Pilot or Flying J parking lot....
Soddy Daisy Tennessee USA, A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone PROUD PRO STAFFER--www.heirloomgamecalls.com, hand made , hand tuned and hand tested, Hunt ARK ducks with www.smackinquack.com I am an uncompensated, non-attorney spokesperson
CharlieCUser is Offline

CharlieC Send Private Message Posts:282
--
25 Apr 2012 10:56 AM
The democrats voted to bring the bill to the floor and the so called friends of the 2nd amendment, the republicans, voted to kill the bill. The only reason the dems voted for it, I thing, was so they could point the finger and say they were the ones who stood up for our gun rights, knowing full well that it was dead before the vote. What we need is people to run for office that will stand up and vote according to the constitution. Question is, where are these people?
I will not forget at election time.
ShilohUser is Offline

Shiloh Send Private Message Posts:552
--
25 Apr 2012 11:51 AM
Alert just sent back out below:
The Dems wanted it to go to the floor precisely so they could cause the Republicans to have to deal with and likely lose big business donors that are opposed to it - or lose 2nd Amendment voters.  The GOP is in a pickle on this.  They are going to hack off a lot of us 2nd Amendment voters, or their business donors.  One or the other is going to be irate at them.  The Dems on the other hand have little to lose.  It is a win-win for them to have it voted on since they do not draw much 2nd Amendment voter support or business donor support anyway.
__________________________________

Tennessee Firearms Association, Inc.
Legislative Action Committee


House Calendar Committee Vote

First, the battle is not over.  On a "recall" motion, the Safe Commute legislation can still see passage into law this year.  It is time to increase the demands on all House and Senate members to hold them accountable.

On April 24, the House versions of the Safe Commute legislation (HB3560, HB3559) came before the House Calendar and Rules committee.  Here are the votes from that committee which voted to send the matter to "Summer Study" which simply means that they voted to kill the bill:

Representatives voting aye (voting to kill) were: Brooks H (R), Casada (R), Cobb (R), Dunn (R), Harwell (R), Haynes (R), Johnson P (R), Maggart (R), McCormick (R), McDaniel (R), McManus (R), Niceley (R), Ramsey (R), Roach (R), Sexton  (R)-- 15.


Representatives voting no (voting to send the bill to the floor) were: Eldridge (R), Fitzhugh (D), Matheny (R), Montgomery (R), Naifeh (D), Sargent  (R), Towns (D), Turner M  (D)- 8

There are several things to note about this list of votes:

  • Two sponsors, Eldridge and Matheny voted to send the bill to the floor so that all legislators could vote for the interests of their constituents. 
  • Four Republicans broke rank with House Leadership and voted to do the right thing and send this bill to the floor
  • One Republican bill sponsor, Casada, voted to kill the bill suggesting he was never really in favor of this legislation.
  • Not a single Democrat member voted to prevent the bill from a floor vote by all legislators

Also note that this bill had 30 sponsors from both parties.  It had overwhelming margins in every committee what was charged by leadership to consider the bill on the merits.  It was defeated in a committee that exceeded its jurisdiction because this committee is not charged with considering bills on the merits but only with the duty to move bills assigned to it from other committees in an orderly schedule to be heard on the floor.  See Rule 49 of the House Rules. The conduct of the members of the Calendar committee who voted to refuse to allow the bill, a bill with 30 sponsors, to go the floor for consideration on the merits by all legislators is an obvious and blatant abuse of discretion by those members which should not be tolerated lightly.

Those members who voted to send the bills to the floor, of both parties and for whatever motive, were the only appropriate votes cast on this bill.  It can be inferred that the other votes were simply purchased by Big Business and to appease a governor who seems to be more loyal to business interests than the constitution. 

It is important to understand the euphemism "summer study".  The term "summer study" as historically used by the General Assembly with only a few exceptions means to kill a bill without allowing the full membership a vote on the merits of the bill.  It is similar to the silly pronouncement last summer by Rep. Gerald McCormick that the House Repubilcan caucus had convened a firearms task force to study firearms laws in Tennessee.  The committee had only a token meeting that was unannounced to the public and accomplished nothing.  Even less is projected to happen with any "summer study" of this legislative topic.  Indeed, why would anything be needed.  The bill has been one of the most hotly debated bills this year.  It has had numerous and extensive committee hearings with live testimony from many interested parties. It has been commented on by the Attorney General with respect to the fact that it would not unconstitutionally impair property rights.  There is no reasonable expectation that this bill or its issues will be "studied" by the legislature. 

This delay was not about studying the ermits.  The issue is simply - extremely simple.  Those in the Republican leadership owed a debt or an allegiance to Big Business and were called upon to pay that price, or a portion thereof, on this bill.  They did it and tried to do it such that a minimum number of caucus members would be called upon to vote on this issue.  They needed to avoid a vote not because it would embarrass caucus members but because they knew that the caucus and Democrats would on the floor pass this legislation, as the committees had already done, by overwhelming margins and that would mean that leadership had failed to deliver the results that Big Business was demanding. 

The House Republican caucus as a body could have demanded that leadership do the right thing.  They did not.  They need to pay the price for breaking their oaths to uphold and enforce the constitutional rights of citizens.  Now, to be certain, some Republican caucus members such as Matheny, Eldridge, Montgomery and Sargeant have stood against leadership on this issue with public recorded votes.  Others who did not vote on the Calendar committee stood against leadership in other public votes.  However, the point is that of the 64 caucus members a clear majority of them sided with leadership with the consequence being that the overall composition of the caucus is not a constitutionally conservative body and those who are not true conservatives need to be weeded from that body in the election cycles to come so that an accountable leadership can be selected in the future - perhaps as early as 2012.


A Lesson in Public Accountability

Coming into the last two years, TFA members and many other conservatives in the state, had optimism for the super majorities that the Republicans had obtained in the House and Senate as well as having a Governor who had promised on video to sign  a Constitutional Carry bill if it was sent to him by the General Assembly.  These Republicans proclaimed God, the Constitution and conservative principles in their campaigns.  That was the fall of 2010.  Those were mere promises.
 
Now, two years later conservatives in Tennessee see that many promises made over numerous years by individuals who called themselves and ran as Republicans were nothing more than empty campaign promises with no intent to perform when the opportunity actually presented itself or presented in opposition to the preferences of Big Business.  Those promises were merely campaign claims that proved false.
 
It has become clear that much of the fault for ignoring and derailing conservative issues originated with a combination of House Republican leadership, Senate Republican leaders and Gov. Haslam.  It has become sadly necessary for conservatives to start looking forward to November 2012 for reasons in addition to the defeat of Obama. 

It has become necessary for Tennessee's constitutional conservatives, grassroots organizations and voters to look forward to 2012 with the unpleasant task of having to defeat some or all of those self-proclaimed conservative Republicans who previously sought and won our support masquerading as constitutional conservatives. 
 
To this end, TFA has determined that since it cannot remove in the ballot box all of those whom should be removed from power, it must identify the most necessary and effective incumbents whose acts and omissions most justify our efforts to oppose them.  One such House Republican is a member of leadership, Debra Maggart.  Harwell has no opposition in her election and absent a strong write-in candidate that race is immaterial.  It is not clear at this time the quality of any challengers, from either party, to any of the others in House or Senate leadership that truly warrant opposition. 

The focus on Maggart has existed since she made it clear last summer that she and others in House leadership had taken conservatives for granted under the assumption that conservatives had no "choice" but to support the Republicans.  Her disposition in that regard was clear then and remains clear in light of her actions this year.  Maggart will be primaried with another Republican, which means that there is a viable alternative to Maggart's re-election in the primary and potentially the general election as well.   An effective primary challenge not only removes Maggart but disrupts the leadership of the House.
 
Another beneficial objective of primaring and potentially removing a member of House leadership is that it makes a clear example to other incumbents and candidates that conservatives do not have to simply accept those individual Republicans or Democrats who want to hold public office, particularly the incumbents.  It makes an example for others that conservatives are not afraid to replace an incumbent who has lost or may have never had the capacity for constitutional stewardship.  It makes an example for others that simply being an incumbent is not a guarantee that conservatives will blindly re-elect  them.  It makes an example for others that conservatives will demand accountability to the voters - first - and will not suffer lightly being relegated to be mere 2nd class citizens behind the demands and interests of Big Business.
 
This point was made in an earlier TFALAC alert by making a figurative reference to the way the Romans displayed the crosses that they used for capital punishment as an example to deter others from future unacceptable conduct.  It unfortunately appears that some missed the figurative analogy of making an example of one who has acted unacceptably to effect both a specific and a general deterrent.  A specific deterrent references the refusal to re-elect an incumbent.  A general deterrent references events that serve to encourage appropriate and acceptable conduct and discourage the type of conduct that resulted in a polticial challenge and hopefully defeat of another.  In this case, we are talking the stewardship of elected officials and taking their oaths to uphold the constitutions seriously.  If some missed the figurative analogy, then the analogy may have been too hard to follow and for that perhaps this clarification will make the intent clearer.   For others who simply tried to profit from taking the analogy out of context, no clarification is offered.
 
The intent in this specific instance is to oppose at any and all levels the re-election of Debra Maggart individually and as a member of House Republican leadership.  This intent is to encourage TFA members and other conservatives to be involved in the opportunity to cause Maggart's political defeat and to do so such that other legislators and candidates for office will understand clearly that TFA, its members and other conservatives will not be taken for granted, will not be treated as "groupies" for either caucus, and that conservatives have a fundamental right to and will demand that elected officials serve first as defenders of the constitutions and stewards of the rights of the citizens - particularly whenever those rights are juxtaposed against the financial preferences of business interests.

I like my guns towed & crew-served! http://www.nps.gov/stri/ http://www.blockaderunner.com/ http://www.9thky.org/
ShilohUser is Offline

Shiloh Send Private Message Posts:552
--
25 Apr 2012 12:06 PM
I just sent a messaage to Sen. Faulk telling him to ram it back to the floor even if he has to do it over RINOs, and warning him that this is last-chance time for the GOP. What we see now in TN on this and other issues from TN's GOP and Nationally and I fear we'll see even under a Romney GOP is all last-chance time for the party. Conservatives will have little choice if they fail us again but to leave.
I like my guns towed & crew-served! http://www.nps.gov/stri/ http://www.blockaderunner.com/ http://www.9thky.org/
WRTNUser is Offline

WRTN Send Private Message Posts:131
--
25 Apr 2012 12:13 PM
Posted By CharlieC on 25 Apr 2012 11:56 AM
What we need is people to run for office that will stand up and vote according to the constitution. Question is, where are these people?
I will not forget at election time.


Where are they???  They run for office and are continually blockaded by their own party establishment leaders.  To make matters MUCH worse, most if not nearly ALL "citizens" are ignorant to this reality and dutifully vote party line labels (locally it is voting last names in the good ole boy system) ......blissful in their ignorance that there is just ONE party that currently runs the nation.  The left wing of this party is the Democrat Party,  the right wing is the Republican party.  They BOTH compose the "Big Government, Progressive Marxist Party".
"Silence in the face of evil is itself evil: God will not hold us guiltless. Not to speak is to speak. Not to act is to act." "Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism."
ShilohUser is Offline

Shiloh Send Private Message Posts:552
--
27 Apr 2012 09:22 AM

Tennessee Firearms Association, Inc.
Legislative Action Committee


It matters who governs...

This week, Lt. Gov. Ron Ramsey proudly proclaimed that the actions of the Republicans these last 2 years in the Tennessee General Assembly provide "Incontrovertible Proof that it Matters who Governs."

I agree.

The lack of any progress on 2nd Amendment and other constitutional issues in the 107th General Assembly under the complete and absolute control of the Republican party does prove that it matters who governs. Furthermore, it really matters who governs in leadership.

Unlike some of the Big Business legislative packages that the Republicans have pushed, we have seen some push, perhaps far short of the objectives, on things like total immigration reform, tax reform, death tax reform, reduction in the size or scope of government, 10th Amendment implementation, protection of human life from inception, election reform, decreased reliance on the federal purse, etc.

We have also seen an open and blatant disregard and destruction in other areas that are constitutionally based like 2nd Amendment as well as core conservative issues that are of concern to individual voters.

We have seen Republicans collectively give huge windfalls to AT&T, corporate concessions to Amazon and others in Big Business, the impairment of your rights under the 7th Amendment, a disregard of the 2nd Amendment, no attention to enforcing the constitutional (s)election of judges but to the contrary efforts to change the constitution to deny citizens any effective say in the selection of those to serve in 3rd branch of government, and on and on.

It matters who governs.  It matters where they put their priorities.  It matters who has bought their allegiance away from the rights of the voters.

Yes, I agree with Lt. Gov. Ramsey.  It matters who governs. When those in current government demonstrate that it was a mistake, at least in some important areas, to give them control, then it matters that the voters be informed enough to look past the misrepresentations of success and "tweak" the combination of those who govern.

It matters that much that the constitutional soundness of government depends on it.

TNReport.com - Ramsey story


Given the response of some to the comments this week about the need to symbolically make an example of one or more incumbents this year, let's simplify the foregoing message.

Paraphrasing Reagan's question to the country --

Are 2nd Amendment supporters better off today in Tennessee than they were 2 years ago?

Hint:  The answer is not subject to genuine debate.

I like my guns towed & crew-served! http://www.nps.gov/stri/ http://www.blockaderunner.com/ http://www.9thky.org/
TOM IN TENNESSEEUser is Offline

TOM IN TENNESSEE Send Private Message Posts:1334
--
27 Apr 2012 04:37 PM

looks like we were better off with a Dem Gov and a split State Legislature....we threw their rascals out and got our own rascals!
Soddy Daisy Tennessee USA, A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone PROUD PRO STAFFER--www.heirloomgamecalls.com, hand made , hand tuned and hand tested, Hunt ARK ducks with www.smackinquack.com I am an uncompensated, non-attorney spokesperson
You are not authorized to post a reply.