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Powder Choices?
Last Post 07 Oct 2012 07:19 AM by bigrig. 11 Replies.
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Orionh4User is Offline

Orionh4 Send Private Message Posts:1401
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01 Jan 2012 11:40 AM
I have prity much only used Hogman Pyrodex and It seems to work good for me.  I was wandering if other propelents would give you more speed?  or are they all prity much the same.  What are some pros and cons of other propelents?
PA RIDGE RUNNERUser is Offline

PA RIDGE RUNNER Send Private Message Posts:93
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01 Jan 2012 01:49 PM
All the possible bps and substitutes have their good and not so good features. When comparing real bp and the substitutes you get pretty much the same speeds. Real bp is dirty and corrosive, Pyrodex is not so dirty but I am told it is more corrosive. 777 is not so dirty or corrosive although still corrosive but is harder to ignite and in some rifles leaves a crud ring that is difficult to remove. Blackhorn is the most expensive of the substitutes that sells in only 10 oz containers for as much or more than the rest. App is the most enemic of all the powders and not even as powerful as real bp. Of course it depends on what type of ignition you are using. If you are using a flintlock then real bp is the only way to go.
Orionh4User is Offline

Orionh4 Send Private Message Posts:1401
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01 Jan 2012 04:41 PM
So in other words what I am using is about as good as anything els. When I was younger my dad and I always just used regular black powder. I have noticed that pyrodex is a little cleaner burning but I think real black powder gives you a little more bang maybe its just me though. Corrosive is not a big deal as long as you keep your smoke pole clean and wash it with soap and water.
Orionh4User is Offline

Orionh4 Send Private Message Posts:1401
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01 Jan 2012 04:41 PM
So in other words what I am using is about as good as anything els. When I was younger my dad and I always just used regular black powder. I have noticed that pyrodex is a little cleaner burning but I think real black powder gives you a little more bang maybe its just me though. Corrosive is not a big deal as long as you keep your smoke pole clean and wash it with soap and water.
cayugadUser is Offline

cayugad Send Private Message Posts:96
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01 Jan 2012 04:49 PM
This might sound simplistic and for that I apologize.  I am not someone that gets excited because one powder can push the same projectile 200 fps faster or less.  I worry more about accuracy.  I also am not one that gets all excited about how CLEAN a powder is.  So I will break it down this way.

 Pyrodex RS or P  -  in loose or pellet form.  Excellent shot to shot consistency.  Very accurate when the right load is found.  Some of my best groups were shot with Pyrodex RS loose and pellet form powder.  Soft fouling and easy to remove by swabbing. Not the easiest powder to ignite, that being black powder, but not to far off.  Unlike some of the other subs that can get a little finicky in the ignition area. Normally priced is a range that makes it easy to afford.  It is a common powder so just about anywhere has Pyrodex.  The bad points..  not the fastest powder on the market ( doesn't impress me on that point as I noted).  Very corrosive when compared to the other powders.  While this is true, that if you leave a rifle fouled with Pyrodex it will rust faster then almost any powder..  I don't leave my guns dirty.  I clean them at the end of the day. Also Pyrodex can be cleaned with simple soap and water.  Water actually if you want. So this to me is a mute point.  I rate this an excellent powder.  Where I live it sells for $18.00 a pound when not on sale.

Triple Seven Powder in both loose and pellet form in  2f & 3f -  Triple Seven is a popular powder with a lot of shooters because of the excellent power spike it produces.  For instance, when I shoot conical bullets I like to shoot Triple Seven powder to get them moving and expanding in the bore to catch the rifling.  With sabots it is normally an excellent powder.  Equal amounts of Pyrodex VS Triple Seven powder you find that the Triple Seven is approximately 15% stronger or more powerful if you will.  This is not true in pellet form as the reduce the weight of the Triple Seven pellet so it matches the power of the Pyrodex RS pellet.  This powder is a little harder to ignite then say Pyrodex RS or black powder.  But nothing to get concerned about.  It seems to withstand moisture in hunting situations well if the rifle is addressed to the conditions you face.  Triple Seven is easy to clean.  Simple water will clean it.  I like to use Windex when I clean it.  The draw backs are, its a little more expensive then other powders.  $24.00 a pound where I live.  It is not as common as other powders.  But that is changing and I see more and more of it in the 2f variety in stores.  The other draw back is when fired in some rifles it can cause a very hard fouling, commonly called a crud ring.  The "crud ring" is a collection of unburned and carbon that forms near the breech of the rifle.  Normally a careful swabbing of the bore between shots will remove it.  Although some people do claim they have to use a bore brush to work the crud ring out of the bore.  I have never experienced that extreme and have shot Triple Seven in over 40 different rifles.  It does clean up well through.  And it is as I mentioned a very good powder for hunting.  As it too is consistent.  Although some ignition problems because of the crud ring force people to use a weaker primer.  For instance the Remington Kleenbore Primers or Winchester Triple Seven primers are a reduced charge primer made to lower the flash in the ignition chamber and there by reducing or eliminating the crud ring.  This primer is not as corrosive as many of the other primers.  Therefore you can shoot a rifle, and leave it fouled or loaded for long periods of time "they claim."  But then you can do it with your rifle, not with mine.


American Pioneer and Jim Shockey Gold powder in 2f and 3f in loose and stick form - This is a sugar based powder.  It is not as consistent as come of the other powders I shoot.  Although when you do find a load with it, and stick to that you normally have excellent consistency and accuracy.  Being a sugar based powder there is no swabbing between shots required they claim. That is not exactly true.  Having shot (and still shooting) many pounds of it.  You will see a white or gray area start to develop near the muzzle of the rifle.  This can make starting a sabot difficult.  But a simple swab worked down about 10 inches into the bore from time to time takes care of this.  Clean is again, with water. And this is not a corrosive powder although if the rifle is left fouled, it will eventually cause rusting in the bore.  Face it, any powder left untreated will eventually cause rusting in the bore.  I am currently paying $24.00 a pound for this whether 2f or 3f.  I like the 3f as it shoots well in revolvers, and the 2f is such a course powder, like fish tank gravel, that it will not pour evenly out of some of the funnel measures we use.  You must use an open end measure when using this powder because of that.  I do not like this powder for hunting.  Again it reacts to moisture as many claim.  But my reason is the lack of shot to shot consistency with this powder.  Although it does shoot roundball well for me.  And it is one of the better powders to shoot in cap and ball revolvers and clean up is easy, and you can shoot all day without breaking the weapon down for a field clean.


BlackHorn 209 -  A relatively new sub powder to the market.  It is actually from what I understand an smokeless powder base with some additives to make it legal and to slow down barrel pressures for the muzzleloader market.  Made by Western Powder, this Blackhorn 209 is taking the inline market by storm it seems.  All you read is the praises of this powder for its power, consistency, and no swabbing.  And you do not clean this powder with any water products.  This is a solvent only to clean powder.  This is a powerful powder.  One of the most powerful, so consider this in your load.  This powder is made for rifles in excellent condition.  Also the shot to shot consistency of the powder is exceptional.  The price can vary.  I have seen it sell for $27.00 for 10 ounces (that right) all the way up to $37.00 for the same jug.  Consider this when you purchase this powder.  Also consider that this powder do to ignition properties can cause a lot of head aches.  This powder is not meant for open breech muzzleloaders like a T/C Black Diamond, or Knight Wolverine, Bighorn, or some of the older technology open breech or hammer breech rifles.  This powder demands a good locking action like the Knight Disc, Mountaineer, or T/C Omega, Triumph, and the CVA Optima and Accura are all good examples of rifles that do well with Blackhorn 209. So besides the make of the ignition to consider, also pay attention to the primer you are shooting.  This powder demands a hot primer.  The CCI 209A, Remington STS to name a few.  No Remington Kleenbore or Winchester Triple Seven primers, even they claim Winchester W209 for this powder.  It is hard to ignite. So the hotter the primer the better.  Also understand the some breech plugs work better with this powder then others.  If you try Blackhorn and have ignition problems, the breech plug could be the culprit.  Also the fire channel can become caked with carbon.  So before you throw that breech plug that does not work away, get some drill bits and push them into the fire channel and turn them  They will scrape the carbon out of the plug and make it work again.  Some people claim they have to drill bit the breech plug after 5 shots.  When I tested it, I got 4 shots before.  Again this could be the fault or design of the breech plug.  Your rifle might be different.  When you clean it, use solvent.  This is good powder if you have the rifle, breech plug and primers to shoot it.  And if the price don't bother you.  I personally have been testing it and am not convinced its the the best darn powder in the world...

Goex, Swiss, Graf's. Schuetzen, and other black powders -  Black powder is the easiest of all powders to ignite.  One reason it is considered dangerous.  I personally like the powder.  Cost effective wise, it is one of the cheapest powders to shoot.  Consistency wise, it is one of the most consistent powders to shoot.  Shot to shot, once you find your load, you are set to go.  One major complaint of the powder is fouling.  Yes it fouls.  So what. I swab the bore and get on with it.  The fouling is soft and cleans with water.  I do not find this powder any harder to clean the all the other powders.  And yes this is corrosive.  But again, I clean my rifle at the end of the day and all is well in the world.  When a rifle will not behave with other powders, I turn to black powder and it seems to make them  behave.  This powder is not easy to find because of the hazmat status it carries, which is a shame.  If you see this powder in 2 or 3f pick a pound up and give it a try.  This is a great but misunderstood powder IMO.

Black Mag, White Hots, Pinnacle, and other powders..  all of these powders are hard to find.  They are easy to clean. They are IMO not as consistent shot to shot as other powders but those that use them ...  like them.  I do like Pinnacle.  It is a good strong powder and easy to shoot and clean.  The cost of these vary and overall if you can find them, many people that shoot them like them.  I have not tested any of them other then Pinnacle, enough to give opinions on.  But they are fun to try.

That is about all I have to add...

Orionh4User is Offline

Orionh4 Send Private Message Posts:1401
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01 Jan 2012 06:21 PM
Great post thanks alot. I think I am going to just stick with the pyrodex since walmart just had it on sale for $15 a pound. And I stocked up.
jrcampbell3User is Offline

jrcampbell3 Send Private Message Posts:194
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02 Jan 2012 08:57 PM
just switched back to blackpowder after two years of dealing with hangfires in my flintlock with jim shockeys gold. not a single problem since switching.
cayugadUser is Offline

cayugad Send Private Message Posts:96
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02 Jan 2012 10:15 PM
Posted By jrcampbell3 on 02 Jan 2012 09:57 PM
just switched back to blackpowder after two years of dealing with hangfires in my flintlock with jim shockeys gold. not a single problem since switching.

When Pinnacle first came out, the salesman I talked to explained that Pinnacle would ignite like black powder and could be used in a flintlock.  Also it was a very clean powder and very non corrosive.  And I thought...   Great!!  a clean powder that I can shoot in my flintlock.  So I purchased two pounds of it. Well like you, I discovered real fast that Pinnacle would not consistently ignite in a flint lock.  When I called the people back, they then explained I had to duplex the load with black powder.  Duplex the load...  I questioned?  Then were is the advantage of low corrosion and low fouling?  And he then told me.. well you want it to ignite consistently don't you?  And they were right.  If I dumped 10 grains of 3f black powder down the bore first, then loaded the Pinnacle, the ignition was excellent.  But the advantage of the powder was gone.

I will say out of my cap locks, it shot roundball very well.  And then I tried it in my cap and ball revolvers and I was sold on the powder for that reason alone.  Since Pinnacle is now near impossible to find, I have switched over to 3f JSG for the revolvers.  And since I am going to dirty the flintlocks no matter what happens. I too shoot straight black powder out of them.
mjgonehuntingUser is Offline

mjgonehunting Send Private Message Posts:687
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03 Jan 2012 05:27 PM
I have an Encore that really likes the American Pioneer "Shockey Gold " sticks !
It's a bit expensive,but I can deal with that.
I can also get 150 grain sticks for the Encore,and 50 grainers (used x 2 ) for my other guns!
I get similar consistency to what I got with 777 but less mess,and loads of the same volume seem to shoot a bit flatter!( like 2" higher at ranges out to 250+ yards)
In my Stainless barrel it cleans up like a dream!
After 10-15 shots I can get the bore sparkling with a squirt of windex,and 3 or 4 patches!
My older T/C inline has no removable breech plug,and I have found it alot easier to clean with the Shockey sticks also!
It shoots flatter than the 777 but the groups open just a tad,though still in the acceptable zone for hunting!
I really like not having to remove my scope every time I clean the guns,and not having to pour boiling water on them is a plus too!
I have a pound of the White Hot on the shelf,but haven't tried it yet.
I rank Pyrodex alomg side Black for cleaning,though the smell doesn't bother my wife as much in her kitchen!
777 is a bit easier to clean than them.
I have yet to try the Blackhorn209.
I have tried both loose and pelletized/stick loads side by side when available and have found the sticks acceptable for my hunting situations,and simpler to use in the field,but I wouldn't feel at a disadvantage using the loose as long as I have my T/C quickshotspeed loaders!
AlanUser is Offline

Alan Send Private Message Posts:20
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06 Oct 2012 09:36 PM
I have used BP, pyrodex, 777, and bh-209. There is no perfect powder, but I believe if you have an inline and don't mind cleaning the breechplug (Which is very easy to unscrew) bp-209 is the most dependable assuming you use the magnum primers. It is the most expensive but it is the most consistently accurate powder I've used and you may want to back off on your charges as it is also the most powerful. Shelf life is excellent also so you won't have to dump out 2 or 3 year old can. You also need a tight sealing projectile so you don't lose gasses escaping from barrel (or breech).
Ritchey Sr.User is Offline

Ritchey Sr. Send Private Message Posts:519
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06 Oct 2012 10:00 PM
I have used APP Jim Shockey Gold powder with great success and I also use 777 pellets in my 50 cal inline. The APP does shoot cleaner in my inline, but 777 seems to shoot better groups in my TC Omega. I think experimenting with various powders will eventually produce what your rifle likes and what you can tolerate as far as residue is concerned. like cayugad said I clean my rifles every day after shooting which makes corrosion a non issue.
bigrigUser is Offline

bigrig Send Private Message Posts:338
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07 Oct 2012 07:19 AM
cayugad; im glad that you posted that info.  I too am a beginning smoke pole user.  I have triple seven in pellets.  I decided to try the American Pioneer powder because of the claim that you don't have to clean the gun as often as with the other powders.  I have found that you can shoot more between cleaning.  But, it does foul too.  Like, up to 10 shots versus 3 or 4 shots with the triple seven.  I noticed that white ring your talking about.  I have a CVA  Optima Pro Magnum 50 cal.  inline that uses shotgun primers to ignite the powder.  So, ignition isn't a big concern.  Its really acccurate with both sabots and power belt bullets.  like 1 1/2 to 2 inch grouups at a hundred yards.some times they strtch out to about 3 inch groups.  I figure for a smokke pole.  Thats not too bad. Do, what your saying is.  If a powder is 2 or three years old.  You have to thow it out?  It doesn't have a good shelf life?  My wife and I moved to Terrell, Tx a couple years ago because of her job. We both work in Dallas.   I haven't had a chance to shoot any of my guns since we've been here.  The local range has a closed inrollment right now.  Theres nowhere close by to shoot.  So, I may have to throw out all that powder I have then.  What about the stuff that I haven't broken the seal on yet? would it still be good?  I hate Texas.
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