Hunting Forum

Interesting how the first shots were lower than the rest on all targets. I havebeen using pydrex pellets since they came out. They work fine for me. When huntingit is the first shot that counts and maybe the second. Not the 3, 4, and 5th. I would not change anything. I do not know anything about black horn 209.
Joe Termite

With not one but two fizzle-poof rounds and not in any sort of sequence I would suspect that the powder may not be the quality that blackhorn has built its reputation on. Have you contacted the makers. If the primer went off each time the gun is working and the primer is working. With such a short time between loading and firing it would be doubtful that the powder got contaminated and that only leaves the powder as a promising suspect. I also see you are having the same results as I do with a knight and those Hornady 300 gr XTPs I also can add that with an 80 to 90 gr load of powder deer just seem to do the bang flop dance too.

I have been told that the primers I am shooting... Winchester W209 are not recommended for BlackHorn 209. It was suggested to use full blow shotgun primers instead of muzzleloading primers. So my next trip out I will pick up some shotgun reloading primers and I am sure that will cure the poofs. At least I hope so. I have a lot of this powder to burn off.

That's the primers I've always used with my Knight (reg. Win. 209) and XTP'S with 90 loose . Good combo for it .

The Winchester 209 primers are full power shot shell primers. That's what I normally use for reloading my shot shells, and since I have a healthy supply of them, that's also what I use on my Thompson Omega. I played around last year with the Blackhorn 209 and was very pleased with it. It provided outstanding shot consistency for me, both accuracy and velocity. I wasn't seeing much more than 1/2 inch difference, at 100 yards, from the point of impact between a cold clean barrel and a fouled barrel. I tried several different bullets, and they all performed well. 250 grn. Shockwaves, 240 grn. XTP Mag Express, 240 grn. Cheap Shots, 320 grn. Lee R.E.A.L., 320 grn. Maxi-Balls, 300 grn. Hornady FPB, and 295 grn. PowerBelt Aero tip. I ended up using 1 1/4 containers of Blackhorn 209 powder.
I haven't done anything with my in-line this year, so with the fizzles you got, I'd be interested to see how my opened container of powder performs as compared to last year. I guess I'll have to bring my stuff to work with me some night, so I can get out there after I get off in the morning and give it a try.

I was under the same impression, that the Winchester W209 would be fine. But I was advised to try some Remington STS or CCI magnum 209 primers. It could be a combination of the breech plug and the primers. I really don't know. But if I get the new suggested primers and still get a POOF.. then I know its the breech plugs.

thats some fancy shooting for that muzzle loader! must better shooting hten my TC omega it looks

Well, I made it out to the range Sunday morning with my T/C Omega to test the Blackhorn 209 powder I opened last year. I was shooting 95 grn. loads behind a 250 grn. Shockwave with easy glide sabots and using Winchester 209 primers from a pack I also opened last year. I had my target set at 100 yards. The first shot hit at the bottom of a 1 1/2 inch diameter bullseye. The next shot hit at the top of the bullseye. I didn't see any problems with the powder or the primers. I found a couple quick loads that I had carried in my shirt pocket from last years hunts, still loaded with powder, bullet, and primer. I got caught in the rain and drizzle a couple times while hunting last year, so I figured if any powder and/or primers were contaminated it would probably be these. Both of the quick loads from last year shot to about the same point of impact as the other loads. The more I play with this Blackhorn 209 powder, the more I like it.

With Blackhorn209 you need a hot prime rlike Federal 209 A or CCI209M.

Blackhorn 209 is a hard to ignite powder so go with hot primer .

You have to check your combo sabot&bullet .It must need at least 50 lbs pressure
 

to set the saboted bullet on the powder charge.

Taureau noir

50 lbs. , wow seems like a fellas palm would get a red ring on it in short time . Actually I have no idea of the poundage I use , but I can feel it through the rod and know it is seated . Maybe it is more than I think , but when I feel the crunch stop , so do I .

Well I picked up a couple pack of those primers mentioned. Something interesting.. The CCI Magnum primers were in a plastic jacket in the "muzzleloading section" if Gander Mountain to the tune of $7.99 a pack. So I went to the reloading section of the store and found the same primers, WITHOUT the plastic jacket for $3.99 . That plastic must be expensive to make. Or maybe because it was hung in a muzzleloading section to fool people unaware of the difference??? They wouldn't do that would they?

I will be testing more of BlackHorn after hunting season ends.

I've shot a lot of Blackhorn 209,my Knight Extreme Discs love it,( one Lehigh conversion,one Knight conversion that I drilled the flash-channel out to .035 ).The two plunger Knights with FPJ do okay but they are not as consistant with a lot of blowback.A Remington with 209 conversion didn't like it at all until I had a "Hunters Bolt Nose" conversion done on it.Now it's a shooter with 100 grains B-209 and a Remington Core- locked Ultra .50 cal. 385 grain in a .54x.50 sabot( the purple one).Bear season Dec.12 here in Eastern NC,gonna try her out if possible.

It was suggested that I kick the powder charge up with the Blackhorn 209 so I did.  I went to 110 grains of powder.  This is where a hitting the brakes I describe later in the post occurred.  1&2 there was no swabbing, BUT after #2 I was so worried I could not load another round, I swabbed the bore with solvent.  3-5 resulted after that, again, no swabbing now, and loaded fine.  Why #4 did what it did, I have no idea.






I had changed sabots from a MMP HPH-24 to the thicker HPH 12 and wanted to see the effect it would have on the shooting of 2 50 grain Pyrodex Pellets with the same 300 grain Hornady XTP.  Only 6-8 are pellet hits.  3&5 were from my original shooting of blackhorn 209.  A very nice group.  But I noted it hit higher then when I shot the HPH 24 sabots.





1-3 was my original start of the shoot.  90 grains (decreased the powder, changed the sabot, and changed the primer)  Not too bad of a group.  Ignition was perfect.  And it was firm to load.  I kicked the charge up to the original 100 grain and shot 4&5.  Why they shifted to the left, I do not know.  I was very sure of my rifle address and trigger pull.



To the problem of the poofs...  I shot yesterday the Knight Disc.  Again, Blackhorn 209 but this time on the advice of forum members.. I used CCI 209 primers.  The gun fired perfect.  Like a center fire.  The only strange thing to report from yesterday..  I 'd shot maybe 10 rounds and was using a MMP HPH-12 to keep a tight sabot.  And as I pushed the sabot/bullet down the bore, it was like in two spots in that bore...  someone put on the brakes and brought my downward push to a stop.  Now I am a big person, but I really had to horse it to move it past those spots.  It bothered me so much, I swabbed with solvent after that.  The gun loaded fine the rest of the day for about seven more shots.  Has anyone experienced that before?

So there is hope at the end of the tunnel.  I have the ignition problem solved.  And now just have to find the right bullet, sabot, and charge.  Just more range time.

On a note:  Be careful when you shop for primers.   I went to a Gander Mountain because they carried reloading supplies.  In the muzzleloading department were CCI primers in a plastic jacket for $7.99 .  Needless to say I was shocked but grabbed two packs.  After all I needed them.  Then I went to the shotgun reloading department.  There in the self were the same primers minus the jacket, same code on the box, and Remington STS primers (also suggested) for $3.99 a box.  $4.00 less because they did not have a plastic jacket?  Needless to say, they got the jacket back and I picked the others off the shotgun reloading shelf.

Plunger guns are not recommended for use with BlackHorn 209.  I shot some of it when it was not even on the shelves out of a T/C Black Diamond XR and ended up digging a chunk of 209 primer out of my forehead.  I tried is also in a CVA Staghorn Magnum, another plunger gun.  I saw two primers explode and miss me, I never gave it a third chance.  I shot it out of my Genesis and it worked fine.  I refused to even chance it in my three knight plunger inlines. 

I've been having great results with my T/C Omega with 95 grns. Blackhorn 209, Winchester primers, 250 grn. Shockwaves with Easyglide sabots. Last year, when I first started playing with BlackHorn 209 powder, I fired over 20 consecutive rounds without swabbing the barrel, and the last round loaded just as easy as the first. I never notice any buildup of any kind. When I finally did run a patch down the barrel, it was just a dry patch. It came out with just a little grey residue on it. From what I've read about BlackHorn 209 powder, the grey residue is actually from the primers not the powder.

Don't use any type of water based solvent or cleaner with BlackHorn 209 powder. It will leave a black sticky residue in your barrel. Clean and swab with a nitro solvent just as you would with your centerfire firearms.

I didn't see any problems with the powder or the primers. I found a couple quick loads that I had carried in my shirt pocket from last years hunts, still loaded with powder, bullet, and primer. I got caught in the rain and drizzle a couple times while hunting last year, so I figured if any powder and/or primers were contaminated it would probably be these.





___________________________________________
http://www.mmoggg.de/]

I was also instructed to use a 1/8th drill bit. It seems carbon can form in the breech plug that closes down the diameter of the fire channel. So you place the drill bit in the breech plug and by hand turn it very slowly. The drill bit will scrape the carbon build up out of the plug. Then a Q tips with solvent will really clean that out. If you do that, with a hot primer, blackhorn 209 shoots just fine each and every time.

I also purchased a CVA Optima 50 caliber to test blackhorn with. This rifle does real well with BlackHorn if you drill bit the plug, and use a hot primer.

The only advice I have is stay away from the Triple 7 primers. They are junk! Black oily mess in your breech plug, making a follow-up shot (if needed or desired) nearly impossible. I prefer the W209 primers myself.