Hunting Forum

I have had a TC Omega, .50 cal MZ for 3 years.  I have been shooting at the range but have never fired it hunting.  I get good accuracy with the TC easy glide sabots at 300 gr, but I need to clean in-between shots or I can't fully insert the sabot.  When I clean, I get the pre-soaked patch stuck and can't remove it without removing the breech plug.

This happened twice on Saturday out of 8 shots.  Am I using the wrong jag?  I use the same jag that I ram the bullets in with.

Any advice would be helpful.

Wanted to add that I have always used 777 pellets.  I tried 3 initially, but only use 2 pellets now.

From your description the problem is not in the jag. I would say that you are experiencing the rather well known crud ring. 777 especially the pellet form seems to develop a very hard and tough to remove crud ring. I have not experienced the crud ring as I do not use pelletized powders. As a possible cure you might try the 777 in loose powder form. The problem with 777 loose is that it is 15% stronger than the pelletized form and to get the same power you must reduce the load by 15%. As an example you would use 85 grains of loose 777 to equal the power of two 777 pellets.

Ok.  Thanks, I'll give that a try.

I tried 777 when I first started muzzleloading, and didn't care for it. The crud ring and swabbing between shots wasn't my idea of fun. I switched to Blackhorn 209 and haven't looked back. I do all my shooting without having to swab, and when I get home clean it with Hoppes instead of soap and water. It's loose as well and IMO the best on the market at this time. I like to shoot 100gr. with a 250gr. FTX using a Harvester crush rib in an Encore. I find it to be very accurate.

I tried 777 when I first started muzzleloading, and didn't care for it. The crud ring and swabbing between shots wasn't my idea of fun. I switched to Blackhorn 209 and haven't looked back. I do all my shooting without having to swab, and when I get home clean it with Hoppes instead of soap and water. It's loose as well and IMO the best on the market at this time. I like to shoot 100gr. with a 250gr. FTX using a Harvester crush rib in an Encore. I find it to be very accurate.

I use 90gr. trip 7 loose and have never experienced a crud ring with it . Went from 85 to 100 and that's what it liked the best with XTP 240 gr. As far as getting a lubed patch stuck always work it back and forth as you work your way to the breech , sort of like a short pumping action. My in-line is a Knight and those easy glides from TC didn't work out for loading at all for it (tight) . Harvester EZ glide , and crush rib load and shoot great for me , but I'm talking about my gun .

 

 

There are tricks to swabbing that also make getting stuck less of a possibility. But the first thing I would do is get a range rod. I personally like a stainless steel rod with a T handle. Make sure it has a barrel bore guide on it. But a heavy duty rod that you can get a hold of will help you through those stubborn swabbing encounters. For instance today, I was swabbing my Lyman Great Plains Hunter. I felt one of the patches was stuck, so ... turn the rod and rifle upside down. With the T on the ground, step on it. Now you have leverage to lift off that stuck patch. Also you can work that hard to reach area slower with the rifle upside down.

The triple seven you are shooting loves to leave a hard crud surface. Depending on where you live (humidity, temps, etc..) the degree of the crud can vary. Some have none to very little and others are plagued by it. When you swab.. work that patch down the bore in short strokes. 3 inches is plenty. Work that 3 inches until the patch moves easy in that area. Now move down three more inches. When you get to the crud ring.. slow down... work in 1/4 inch strokes if you have to. The point is.. don't jam that patch into a heavy fouled area. You have to work at the edges and work your way through that area. Once you get through, bring the patch up and flip it over. Now work the barrel again. After that a dry patch will make sure you leave no moisture in the barrel.

If you ever jam one up in there and don't want to or can not pull the breech plug.. have some isopropyl alcohol in a spritz bottle Shoot that down the barrel. It will saturate the patch an little more and make it easier to get it moving again. The main thing is slow down when you swab. And if you suspect the bore is wet.. dry patch and even pop a cap through the breech if you're sure its wet. That will blow it out the barrel end sometimes.

Some say the standard 209 shot shell primer has enough power to push the bullet away from the top of the pellets leaving an air gap between the top of the pellets and the bottom of the bullet. The theory is that this air gap is the cause of the crud ring when using Triple 7 pellets. Several manufactures have started producing reduced power 209 primers specifically to help resolve this problem, they are marketed as black powder 209 primers. There are also some adapters available that will allow you to use small pistol primers instead of the 209 primers. I use Triple 7 granular powder in one of my rifles with standard 209 primers and have not had any problems with the dreaded crud ring. I'll normally run a wet patch down my barrel after every two shots.

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shoo...t104275080

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shoo...t104275080

Pretty much agree with all the posts. A range rod is a big help. I have a solid aluminum one with a T handle. As to the crud ring, you must remove it before the next shot or the pellets and or the sabot you load for the next shot will not be seated at the bottom of the barrel but may rest on the crud ring. This could be a serious problem as the load then is not a load but a barrel obstruction. On a clean barrel after loading the first time leave the ram rod in the barrel and make a mark on it aligned with the muzzle. You can see in an instant if your load is seated all the way down or not.

That mark that PA Ridge Runner is talking about is called a Witness Mark. And it is a great idea. For beginners or experienced shooters alike. Here is an easy way I do it.. After you load the rifle leave the ramrod sitting on top of the charge. Now with some masking tape or painters tape, level to the muzzle, wrap a layer of it around the ramrod. The next time you load.. you need to have that tape in the same spot. It the tape is off by a little, you need to do a better job of swabbing.

I have been using the special 777 ML primers as well.  I appreciate all the advice.  Our gun season doesn't start until November 28th (Massachusetts) so I have plenty of time to work out a good load using the granular powder. 

 

 

If the breach plug is one of the TC models that removes without tools, why not just take it out? My preference is to swab from the breach toward the muzzle-with black powder any loose crud with pushed out with the first patch. If it's not one that the plug can be removed by hand, the above advise is the way to go...

As much as I enjoy shooting the ML, I have yet to shoot more than 5-8 shots during a range session.  Pulling the breech plug is not that hard, but it does take time.  The scope sits low, so it's pretty tight to get your fingers on the breeh plug.  Anything I can do to speed up the time between shots will improve my chances of taking a deer.

Right now, with the pellets and T/C super glide, there is now way I could ever load and take a follow-up shot.

Lost ya on that last comment , the fun with ML to me is " one shot " dead deer ! Use it wisely .

Clean your barrel real well then give it a good swabbing of "Bore Butter 1000" It comes in a yellow tube. Do NOT use petroleum-based cleaners in a black powder gun! They soot the thing up and are hard to clean out. Black powder guns should be "seasoned" for a while shooting until they get broke in a bit.

David maybe we can agree to disagree on the bore butter. I had a not so stellar occasion using bore butter. I got rust under the bore butter during storage. I also clean first with HOT water and dish soap till the patches come out clean I then rinse with really hot water and let dry. I then proceed with modern solvents and clean again till the patches come out clean I then oil the barrel for storage. Todays barrels are made from modern steels and I have never had one problem using oil for storage. I do swab out the oil with alcohol before a shooting session or going hunting. I also swab between shots with alcohol. I sincerely doubt that I can get much better accuracy from any of my guns.

PA RIDGE RUNNER. I have no problem with how you do your cleaning. Different strokes I guess. I don't ave a rust problem, so I guess my way works as well. I have a friend who is totally into black powder and he recommends the bore butter and rooster red bullet lube. Shooting is a wide range sport and there are all kinds of ways of doing things. I just offer my two cents and leave it up to the reader which one they try and use. Keep your powder dry. David.

Thanks for not taking offense to my opposition. Yes it is different strokes for different folks. I believe that TC, the supplier of Bore Butter, I personally know a man who owned a company that made the bore butter and was also a big muzzleloader shooter. He was sworn to secrecy on the formula for bore butter but did not use it himself nor did he recommend it to his friends. This was a number of years ago and he still refuses to divulge the ingredients. The notion that a muzzleloader bore has to be seasoned is also a mystry to me because of the metals used in current barrels. To me the seasoning of a metal conjures up the thoughts of doing just that with a cast iron fry pan to get it slick. My barrels are not made of cast iron but are modern steel which in a fry pan seasoning does absolutely nothing to make it slick. Again this is my opinion but when I used it I had a dickens of a time cleaning it out so I could shoot the rifle.

PA Ridgerunner: While I see your point and accept it to a point, it should also be remembered that steel and cast iron differ in only one area and that is carbon content. Certain alloy metals are present in some alloys of steel, but basically, they are the same dog. Coating steel is important because it will rust just as cast iron does. The Bluing/browning on our guns' metal surfaces is a coating of oxides produced with chemicals and is designed to reduce rusting, which in itself is a coating that slows down further oxidation. If you get rust down in your bore, it is because it is wet and unprotected. I use hot water and dawn dish soap to clean my bore, but also dry it out real well, then lay on a patch or two of bore butter and it is fine. I use bore butter to lube my conicals and it works real well for me. Bore butter is edible, as well as water soluable so it cleans out with the hot water and dish soap as well. But the bore butter coats the metal and impedes rust, so it works for me in that roll as well. T/C also makes a bore cleaner that goes along with the bore butter. It is a white liquid and I use it out in the field to clean out at the end of the day when the hot water and all the fuss isn't as practical.
What kind of critters you got in PA? Alaska has a big supply of big critters. This past winter I had a cow moose walk across my front deck. Surprised me and the wife.