Hunting Forum

I've been looking around and came up with these:

Arcus 98DA/DAC in 9mm
Ruger P95 9mm
Stoeger Cougar 8000 .40 SW
Taurus 24/7 .40 SM
Taurus Millenium Pro .40 SW

Looking at something they can handle (Wife 56, Daughter 36, neither has high hand/arm strength) and use a concealed carry as needed.

Any inlut on these? They all have great reviews and are around $400.00.

Mike

You've probably heard this before but proper training is of the utmost importance. Price has nothing to do with it,they need to feel comfortable and confident in the use of any firearm. I'm not going to get into a discussion about 9mm compared to 40caliber. I hope you will get them someone other than you to help them learn the use of deadly force,safe gun handeling,proper shooting practices,and someone you both trust. Many times I've seen family members benefit from having an outsider teach them the basics and then you can take it from there. I hope and pray they are never in a situation where they need a firearm,but if they do we all want them to come home to you every night.

any one of those would do the trick,i would how ever purchase a 22 pistole.
then allow them to shoot it as long as needed to become proficient with it ,then move on to a gun with as they say more power.
my wife learned to shoot with a 22 buckmark semiauto pistole,and she still enjoyes shooting it because it does not kick like a mule,and the ammo is cheap.
her carry firearm is a 357 mag,6 inch barrel,with a 125 grain j.h.p,she will pull the trigger on it once or twice,but she will shoot her 22 for hours.
just a suggestion to you.

Posted By mault on 12 Sep 2010 11:03 PM
I've been looking around and came up with these:

Arcus 98DA/DAC in 9mm
Ruger P95 9mm
Stoeger Cougar 8000 .40 SW
Taurus 24/7 .40 SM
Taurus Millenium Pro .40 SW

Looking at something they can handle (Wife 56, Daughter 36, neither has high hand/arm strength) and use a concealed carry as needed.

Any inlut on these? They all have great reviews and are around $400.00.

Mike

MWikey1 already said it about training, so I won't beat the horse. 

As far as concealed carry goes, it will still come down to size and accessability.  A full size pistol (like the Ruger P95) will be more difficult to conceal and access (if needed).  The upside to it is it weighs a little more so recoil will be less than shooting the same 115 JHP 9mm round from a smaller framed pistol.

My personal advice would be go to a range that rents the pistols you're considering and have these ladies in your life fire a full magazine through them to see what they like.  Hope this helps.

I intend to have both of them do a shooting/safety course locally then all of us will be going to the 4-day Frontsight training next year. The .22 is a good idea and I plan on that already. Just want opinions as to which pistol would be best, anyone used the Arcus or Stoegar?

Mike

Wrong on all counts there, pal.  .38 Spl revolver.  Very few - VERY few shooters, even us macho men are really competent in semis.  We do not practice nearly enough and almost never practice in OMG! training.  Very few COPs or other LEOs are competent either.  You say neith has much arm/hand strength.  That means feeding and cycling malfunctions.  That also means it is hazardous for them to manually cycle the slide.  I have sold guns for many years and have seen this scenario hundreds of times.  The guy wants a new gun so he uses "her" as his excuse.  She gets a gun she doesn't like and is never competent with.  Don't do that to her or yourself.  They need the simplest most trouble-free most reliable thing that they can handle.

I gotta agree with Shiloh 100 Percent. The 38 Special revolver is probably the easiest and most practical sidearm to learn and practice with. The S&W is cleary at the top as far as brands go. If concealability is the target then a snubbie or a three inch. If it's home security than a 4 inch would be fine. Ammo in this caliber is available in just about any configuration anywhere in the world. As far as loading there is no magazine to contend with and as far as safety goes there's not much better than a double action revolver. I would bring the girls to the store let them pick the gun/grip configuration they feel fits them best.

In the 4 day class you are taught under the OMG! situation and you fire over 500 rounds in those 4 days. I agree the feeding and cycling are important hence my asking For feed back on the various offerings. I considered revolvers and will see what is offered. We use a gun safe so we keep the gun(s) loaded with an active in the chamber and the safety on (mine is the SW M410 so there is no way to fire it with the safety engaged as the hammer is disabled.) SO it is, open the safe, click back the hammer and disengage the safety and you are ready to fire the first round with a light trigger pull, or, disengage the safety and use it in double mode and have a bit heavier pull on the first round.

I can see the benefit of a revolver from the ease of reloading...as long as it isn't under pressure or you are competent with a speed loader. Reloading the auto is push the button, drop the clip, slam the next one in. If you have counted your shots, you still have one in the chamber when you do this so no need to manage the slide. If not, that is why I will have them test each model and see if suits them. If it turns out they hate the autos, then on to revolvers! I do not intend to force the choice on them.

I'm looking at the Stoeger Couger myself as it is actually a company owned and run by Berreta. I wuld love to get a Arcus 98 DA or DAC but can't find anyone who handles them here in Georgia, they are a Browning HiPower knock off that you can actually interchange Browning parts with.

There is a reason police went away form the various .38 caliber guns: no stopping power, a 38 special has about 218 ftpd out of the barrel, a 9mm, 350 and a .40, 500. I'll take 350-500 over 218 any day.

Miike

It's Benelli not Beretta thats in kahoots with Stoeger, Franchi, and A.Uberti.

Quite the contrary to what you believe the 38 spl has many load offerings, some much more powerfull than the hottest 9mm's anywhere. Additionally, statistics show that when under duress, even the simplest functions like disengaging a safety become the hardest to remember. For reasons like this the Glock with no safety has become the most popular duty weapon among law enforcement agencies. Other than its use in a sandy enviroment a revolver is virtually unjamable with factory ammunition. As far as all auto's go jams do occur. Period. Again a stressfull situation might contribute to the operator not maintaining a stiff wrist or grip leading to a jam. Or possibly operating an auto inside a dark bedroom at the waist level whereas the slide could injure the operator preventing a second or followup shot. The reason most police departments went to the auto was capacity. Again statistics predicted that with a larger capacity the officer would likely have more hits. After approximately 20 years and with only a few exceptions, this theory is not necessarily true. You are correct in giving your loved ones their choice but you as the knowledgable one must limit this to a practical one. When I purchased my first carry I opted for the long barrel, full underlug, six shot, big custom grip mother. A couiple months later I didn't want to carry it it was so heavy. I then realized my choice was not practical. Good luck with your decision. Let us know what you decide.

A 2" Smith will very rarely be shut down by purse lint either!

I do practice OMG and that's why I carry a GLOCK. I have to go with the revolver for ladies. Seen too many, small framed ladies, have cycling trouble with a larger semi-auto. A small framed 38spl has my vote. My theory is keep it siimple, point and shoot.

The .38 Spl got its un-deserved reputation for lack of "stopping-power" with the old 158 gr lead round nosed slugs it used to be cursed with. Today, a 125 gr +P JHP is on-par with anything out there. Truth is, however, "stopping-power" is a myth. No handgun round has 100% reliable "stopping-power" on 100% of the bad guys 100% of the time. There are those that believe that the mighty .45 ACP can stop the Earth's rotation, that the .357 Magnum can destroy the space-time continuum, and that the 9x19mm can take out 23 bad guys in a row. "Stopping-power" is a relative term that is thrown about by ammo marketing and gun magazine writers in the effort to sell us something, whether their product or their knowledge or their articles, etc. I have seen numerous films of actual shootings over the years. Seldom has the shootee been knocked down to the 1st shot. The only 1 I can think of that was taken down instantly was a large crazy man that had already soaked up about 5-6 9mm slugs from police before being dropped by a single muzzle-to-skin 12ga 00 blast to the chest. Even then, he just dropped to his knees for a second then fell forward. "Stopping-power" really is conditional on many factors and I firmly believe - and this is backed up by similar thoughts from many LEOs and trainers I deal with that what matters most is not caliber, super-cool-bullet names or pistol. What matters is a "BANG!" and ANYTHING impacting the goon. Sure, if he is crazed and hopped up on 8 drugs we may have a different scenario, but 99.997% of all goons have at the top of their person agenda the same rule we have; "1) Stay alive!" So, when confronted with a victim that suddenly fights back and has a weapon most of the goons will automatically reverse their course of action. And, when confronted by a gun that surprises them with a loud bang and flash of light, especially if something hits them. Training in the "OMG!" methods is great and is needed no matter what is carried if we are carrying all the time etc. But for most people, they only need to know the basics of loading, unloading, how to hold it, aim it and shoot it along with the 3 rules of safety. These are the house-guns that will likely never get used in real-life situations but need to be able to get into action without any special grip-stances, extra safeties, cyclic actions, or worries about dust and lint having reduced the gun's reliability in the past decade since it was last cleaned. Training in the "OMG!" methods has to be on-going, at the minimum annually and idealy about quarterly to really allow a shooter to master the methods and gun. It is fun watching a good instructor shut-down a SWAT member in an "OMG!" session by pulling one of the Murphy tricks on his beloved semi. One of the greatest things about the wheel-guns is that you just about cannot shut them down. While they can jam up, it is so rare and nearly impossible to force to happen for training that it really can only be talked about in theory. Personally, I think most LEOs do themselves a great dis-service by dissing good revolvers and heading toward the latest and greatest semis. They claim a need for rapid reloads. Why? What are they expecting? Who are they shooting at!? Practice reloading the revolver and you can master that activity about as fast as a semi-auto can be reloaded. Besides that, by the time you have run dry on the revolver you had better have the bad guy(s) down for the count and be reloading just in case one twitches. (Many smilies were supposed to be inserted but they aren't working for some reason.)

A good 2" barrel 5 shot revolver in .357 Magnum, loaded with +P .38 Special 125 gr hollow point bullets will be a good choice.  Have them practice with wadcutters to start, work up to the +P hollow points and then try the 125gr hollow point .357 loads.  If that's too much, the .38 +P will be enough.  Taurus makes some fine 5 shot revolvers for about $325. 

Most CCW defensive instances don't require shooting at all.  Show the gun, the perp runs.  Where shots are fired, most often it's only 1, maybe 2 shots total, and it's over.  Even if there were 4 perps, shoot one of them twice, none of the other three are going to want to be next.

I like my S&W model 60 but also concidered the Ruger SP101 as well.

Take them to gun shows, gunshops. Let them find a gun that they are comfortable handling(remember this is about them not you so don't push them toward something that you want). Some ranges have rentals that they can try out. In the end it is about them being able to handle the gun in a safe and effective way.

I too have to agree with all who recommend a revolver except to recommend a .357 Magnum. This caliber can handle a number of rounds with less kick such as the .38Spl, .38SPl + P, etc. As time goes by and practice yields good results, they can move into shooting the magnum rounds.

I really like the idea of a revolver because it is clean in design and operation. No slides or magazines to mess with, just aim and shoot.

You can even go with a concealed hammer to reduce the chances of snagging while retrieving the weapon from a pocket, purse, etc.

I have plenty of hand/arm strength but I have small hands. My carry weapon is a Ruger SP101, .357Mag. The Ruger had small grips overall which fit my hands better (yes I practice with each). I also added after market grips for an even better feel.

buy the 357 revolver,you can shoot 38 out of it all day long,then if the need warrants it,you can use the 357 magnum 125 grain f.m.j.

the best way to teach a person to shoot one is by mixing up the bullets.add 38 and 357 rounds,and let said person shoot the firearm.
and by the way,dont tell them you have done that,so when they fire off the first round it will be a light round,then a womp round,after a while the flinch will be gone.
and i can guaranty,if a perp get hit with a 357 round.he or she will in most cases not get back up,unless body armor is involved.

I used to do that little trick to my friends when we'd go out and shoot my S&W Model 19. I loved the look on their face's when that 357 round went off.