Hunting Forum

hello -  of  the three  packs  i only see one -Flag - who is actually prepared to handle a downed animal - the others  are  great   for surviving a night -out  but -  the  game bags -plastic bags  and  tarp - seal the deal  for me and by adding  the folding pack frame   and  he's  gonna have all tools  neccessary to  be able to skin - debone and take care of the meat - !!

 

http://wildlife.state.co.us/wildlif...bsp; 

this is the deboning  dvd   good information -- Gary

 Poper meat care makes for the best table fare

I suspect the others are like me. After the animal is tagged and gutted it's back to camp for the game bags, pack frame and hopefully some help.
Big Lance

I also have "HCH game bags" (36"x48" 4 ea.)  but I keep them on the quad in a saddlebag where they are available if needed.

 

These are heavy duty canvas drawstring bags that are washable and re-useable.

. There's room for all Gods creatures,.. right next to the taters' an' gravy! ,.........
. Shoot Straight & Stay Safe ! ,..........
. Terry Webster,...
. NAHC Life Member,.
. NAFC Life Member,
. RMEF Sponsoring Member,..
. SCI Member,..
. Michigan Sportsman's Assoc.,
. NRA Life Member,..
. US Army - Nam' Veteran SGT E-5 1970-72 1st/327th /101st AB

hello -  no problem - just  checking -  As  far as going  for help or even  back to the atv - all wasted  time - time is meats worst enemy - takes  less then  1/2 hr. for meat to start to spoil , especially if the hide is left on- even in cold weather the hide insulates the meat causing it to spoil!- How far to help or  the atv?  How long  before you can get back ? 

Most hunters out west  now opt . for the guttless method of deboning -by the time you gut an animal - I can have the elk hide split from rear -to ears  and cut down one side and have the front leg off and ready to work on the rear leg.

 Once animal  is skinned - 1/2 at a time - we cut the meat right off the downed animal and get it in some kind of game bag immeadiatly. basically 4 pieces per side - front leg - back leg- backstrap and take all the meat off the ribs ,brisket and neck in one slab(hamburger)- turn over repeat -then roll out paunch(inards)and get loins  and heart  and what ever else you may want -  Usually takes less than an hr. - with help less than that !  Cut meat can be laid out on hide or a plastic tarp/rain poncho etc.   but should get into somekind of gamebag,  ASAP!  we also like to cut open the big rear legs  and remove  the  bone - opens up the biggest piece to cool better - meat can bone sour easily - by not packing out any bones  the wieght is almost cut in 1/2!   Each cut of meat should go in it's own gamebag - throwing  bug chunks of meat in a heavy canvas bag does little to help the meat cool properly - needs air curculation-  in fact it generates  heat -  Gary

 Poper meat care makes for the best table fare

 

 

Gary,... apparently you didn't read my post towards the end of page 1.

 

I DO  debone,... simple process,.. I also have done the gutless method of haulin' out game (whitetails) and it's pretty slick. I just haven't had an oppourtunity to give either a whirl on a Wapiti as of yet.

As far as gettin' the bags are concerned,... that's  one of the many reasons to carry a GMRS/FRS radio,.. while your cuttin' someone else will be comin' with the necessities.

Hopin' to change that this coming fall,....

 

 

. There's room for all Gods creatures,.. right next to the taters' an' gravy! ,.........
. Shoot Straight & Stay Safe ! ,..........
. Terry Webster,...
. NAHC Life Member,.
. NAFC Life Member,
. RMEF Sponsoring Member,..
. SCI Member,..
. Michigan Sportsman's Assoc.,
. NRA Life Member,..
. US Army - Nam' Veteran SGT E-5 1970-72 1st/327th /101st AB

hello - yes - i do actually  read  the comments - if I was repeating anything - it's just to make sure we all understand the importance of proper meat care-

Everyone has their own way of doing things - time/place/different situations make for endless varitables- I'm just saying the better prepared and  having all items - at hand can and does make the job easier and a better end result !- 

 No offense meant to the way everyone hunts or the different ways the get the animal out of the woods  and  take care of the meat!

good hunting - fill your freezer --

as far as calling  for help - i've yet to see a radio that actually works over more than a mile and has to be in open terrain -  maybe the new rhino's  but i cant afford them -  i'd also say most of my elk hunts  have been solo -archery and going for help was not an option!  like I said you need to be prepared!  gary

 Proper meat care makes for the best table fare

Hey Gary, GOOD Info!
What's in a day pack is a balance between, you surviving, and what you'll need to take care of the game.
I've killed a bunch of Elk, and packed out a bunch more for friends and even people I didn't know.  Haven't lost one yet.  I don't pack in big coolers and dry ice, but if the weather is expected to be warm, I do go in prepared.  I've thrown the game bags and pack frames on a meat cart, hauled em five miles in and stash em close to where I'd be hunting.  Picked them up on the way out when the days hunt was over.  I haven't packed game bags (in my day pack) with me while hunting, yet.  You have to consider the weight of your pack, how far in you're going, the expected temps, and how long before you can get the game out.  I suppose that if it was going to be warm enough that I thought I'd only have hours to get the meat out, the game bags would be in my day pack (along with a camo T-shirt.)  Think most Elk hunting is done at elevations and at the time of year, when you got a little time to get the meat out.  There are ways to give you more time.  Hunt together; the more guys you got with you, the easy it is to get the meat back to camp quick.  Use snow to cool the meat.  Hang it in the shade (preferably down low next to a creek)(hell, if the creek is spring fed and deep enough, you might even consider placing the meat in the creek (with the hide on.))  I've used my space blanket (and dental floss) to make a lean-to to keep the sun and the heat off the meat.  Getting the hide off is important, but without game bags, flies can ruin the meat as quick as the temps.  I do carry a couple of large plastic bags, but you should cool the meat some before putting it in the bag (the more cooling the better).  If nothing else, put as much meat as you can carry in your day pack, or tie it to the outside and head for the truck.  And then head back in to get another load.
I have to admit, many times it's a race.  But if prepared, it's a race easily won without having to carrying a 100# day pack!

Sorry Gary, but my pack will always have more gear to make sure "I" get back to camp!  If the meat get's back, then you can be sure I got there too!!!

JMO
Dean
H2O

Hunting Elk in a rainforest; ya haven't experienced it till ya had rain running down the crack of your *** 30 minutes out of camp. Formerly a Roosevelt Elk hunter on the Washington coast, now hunting them Rocky Mtn. ones, in Wyoming.

- Proper meat care makes for the best table fare

Gary,... I can fully understand your point of protecting your meat and having the temperature of it cool down as fast as possible. I'm certain that is just about any hunters main goal after they have made their kill,.. I know that it's mine.

 

I also realize that your "business" is the "ultimate game bag" and your trying your darndest to promote them with the last 4 posts,.. I think you have pushed the taking care of your kill pretty much with each. Every hunter I know tries to cool and care for their meat as soon as possible,.. the key being AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.

 

Different situations however can and will happen,.. which in turn will cause different lengths of time in which you are able to do so. I think your stressing that point 4 times now on this thread has served it's purpose.

. There's room for all Gods creatures,.. right next to the taters' an' gravy! ,.........
. Shoot Straight & Stay Safe ! ,..........
. Terry Webster,...
. NAHC Life Member,.
. NAFC Life Member,
. RMEF Sponsoring Member,..
. SCI Member,..
. Michigan Sportsman's Assoc.,
. NRA Life Member,..
. US Army - Nam' Veteran SGT E-5 1970-72 1st/327th /101st AB

hello -   good  luck  with your  tag   or   antler  stew  !  Business -  right - As much as I'd like to agree -  since you seem to be the only one  whinnin - why do  you hunt ! besides the outdoors experience  and the love  of  nature  - pitting yourself  against  an animal - the rush - the excitment-  the challenge- etc.  etc.  ??  

 on a further note - as i look back -  who's the one trying to impress everyone  on this deboning  skills  etc -  i didnt bring the  subject  up -  -dude -   gary

 

 Proper meat care makes for the best table fare

I didn't see Terry doing any whining.  He was just telling it like it is.  After four posts pushing the proper care of meat and your tag line right below, it was rather obvious that you are doing a little free advertising   I guess there are no rule violations or anything, but IMO most of us are more than knowledgeable about field care and cooling meat as quickly as possible.  Now what was the name of that business again DUDE

 

Topgun----30-06 NAHC LM NWTF US Army Vet Corp SP5 68-71

 hello - I meant no offense to anyone -  - sorry about the whinin  comment -

If I preached to much - sorry- not my intent to promote !

lots of people on these forums use business's in the signature  area -

I was hammering  home the being prepared!

Believe me or not !   

experienced hunters -  as most of you seem to be - every hunting trip is different !  we all are set in our ways!

Gary

 i had just recently found out about adding avatars  and  signatures -

 

 Proper meat care makes for the best table fare

Gary, Terry (or should it be Terry, Gary?)  Man, am I confused!!!

Come on GUYS!

THE THREAD IS ABOUT "ELK SAVVY"
I don't agree with promoting your own interest here on the NAHC Board, but Gary has contributed valuable (I believe) information about hunting the elusive Wapiti.  Can't say that I haven't done the same, I have my opinions about huntin Elk, and have presented them here.  I have also invited those that don't agree with mine, to post their opinions.  elkaholic93 and I merely have a difference of opinion on some (and I emphasize some) items that should be in your day pack.

Think I have packed out about some 35+ Elk.  As I said above, haven't lost one yet to spoilage.  If there is new gear out there, that will help me make that 40+ with no spoilage, then I'm interested in hearing about it.  I haven't checked out the link in Gary's reply.  And would probably field test it for a couple of years before I would endorse it. (one reason I do not field test NAHC items any more, to short of a reply time to evaluate the gear.)

Point is I believe everyone posting here falls into two categories:  Those who are Elk savvy sharing, and those learning!!!  Truly think you can define it to one,  we are all learning!!!  I have yet to meet anyone that knew it all, and and those that said they did, were wrong!

JMO
Dean
H2O Elkaholic

Hunting Elk in a rainforest; ya haven't experienced it till ya had rain running down the crack of your *** 30 minutes out of camp. Formerly a Roosevelt Elk hunter on the Washington coast, now hunting them Rocky Mtn. ones, in Wyoming.

ok -  how many here are trophy hunters- Do you pass up animals  to get in the score book  or are you just trying to fill the tag first chance you get .

I know most guides try there best to get a respectable bull  for a client!

What catagory do you fall into -

#1 -  I'll shoot the first elk - no matter what size  the antlers

#2 - I want at least a 5x5

#3 - I'd like to shoot a 6x6

#4 - It's gotta score at least 350

#5 -400 or over 

Hunters who start setting goals for the size antlers , will most likely go home empty handed. Most  ,Archery  Hunts are 15 days  during the rut here in Arizona . Weather can vary  year to year but mostly warm days and cool nights , throwing in a little rain. I hate to say it but here in Arizona it's pretty common practice  to pass on 300- 350 class bulls the first few days - I'm not just talking -(or bragging) -  about experince hunters but guys  from out of state and beginners. Mainly because Az is know for some real monster bulls being taken every year, and so do a lot of other states! The main problem is high expectations -  the setting limits on what you'll shoot and won't shoot! - For an experienced hunter thats  ok but for beginners  and even out of staters - monster bulls don't just walk by everyone in the woods -   I was with several hunters from michigan a few yrs. ago - the first 3 days  each hunter had an easy shot on bulls - like 5x5 - 6x6 , nice bulls - even 300+ bulls  but passed in hopes of killing  a really big bull! They all woulda settled for a spike by the end of season and  went home empty . - Did they have a great hunt - yep- do they still apply each year  to try agin - yep! Killing any elk archery is a huge accomplishment reguardless of how big the antlers score.

One more story- A guy in camp during an early  archery hunt - first time hunting anything- he was accompaned by a very experienced freind who was basically guiding for him. Each night they had great stories of getting close to some nice 5x5's -6x6's  some as high as 350. The hunter wanted to shoot each one but his friend told him -no-and  kept telling him ,he can get a bigger one. His guide had to go home for a few days  and reminded his freind  not to get excited  and wait for him to return and he promised a monster - just be patient. That very next  night we come back to camp  and this hunter wasn't back and the quad/trailer was gone . when he arrived in camp - he told us he had a bull down - we asked how big - he wasn't sure but it was big ! Upon arriving at the bull - he had killed a 4x5 that might net 185 if lucky - he was the happiest guy in the woods and justly so -  he had done it hisself. we spent 3 hrs  trying to find a way offf the mtn . in th dark.  When it comes to harvesting an elk -  what makes you happy !   Gary

 Proper meat care makes for the best table fare

Dean - I think there is only one kind of elk hunter because we both know everyone is learning. No elk hunter knows it all - even if they think they do

I am a trophy hunter. Every elk I have shot is a trophy to me. I also shoot "The First Legal Elk I have a Clean One shot opportunity to take and make". So I am a #1,#2,#3,#4,#5

For me, it is kind of hard to classify people into the two categories - Trophy Hunters and Non-Trophy hunters.

I personally have different categories:

#1. Slob (Hunter) - someone who doesn't respect the game, rules or land when hunting. At times the word hunter should be deleted and Slob stands by itself.

#2. An elk hunter - someone who is willing to learn whatever they can about elk hunting. They use their experience and the experience of others to have a great experience.

Sorry Dean that this string is going away from Saavy - I really do not like talking politics

Elkaholic93- Good stories and experiences on the examples. I have seen the same situations in Wyoming. I try and find out what the motivation of those that hunt with me is and if they would only shoot a particular size, thats fine with me, but I do advise them that big giants are few and far between. If they are looking for any elk, I advise them to "Shoot the frirst legal elk you see and have a clean shot at, because you may not see another the rest of the season".

Tom

When I'm hunting elk, I'm trying to fill the freezer.

 

Using that as a guide, I'll normally take a shot at the first legal elk I see. Normally, I'm carrying a cow tag and I have absolutely no problem putting women and children at the head of the line. I've shot my fair share of bulls mind you, but as I've gotten older, the meat and the hunt have more importance to me. I've personally taken over 25 elk, including a bunch of raghorn bulls, and some 5x5s and bigger. I've also been in on the taking of well over 100 elk of both genders. One thing I've noticed is that no matter how long you cook the antlers, they're still going to be too tough to eat.

 

That being said, I have been trying to draw a bull tag for Unit 2 in northwest Colorado for years. I've got 14 preference points and it takes about 16 to get the tag. So, I'm starting to get close. One good thing about Unit 2 is that, while bull tags are extrememly limited, cow tags are plentiful. So, for many seasons, I've been able to hunt cows in the exact same area that I'll eventually get the bull tag for. This is an extremely good way to scout since I've been able to learn where the elk hang out during the season and where the waterholes and bedding areas are during the actual season.

 

When I do draw that tag, I will not fill it with any bull that is less than a 6x6 with at least 50 inch main beams. I see at least one bull of that caliber everytime I've hunted that area, so I feel really confident that I'll be able to find one when the time comes. So, for that one elk hunt, I'll join the ranks of the trophy hunters. But, other than that hunt, if it is a legal elk, I'm going to pull the trigger and will sing with joy on every step of the pack out because me and Momma will eat good that year.

 

Flags

Artifical intelligence is no substitute for natural stupidity.

    Hello -  I  think someone mentioned  the subject of scents while hunting elk earlier.

Which of the smilies fits your scent  in the woods? feel free to add your own.

I know we all like to think that the new scent free /blocker camo will make every hunt a success. I'm not trying to take away the value of being scent free. Normally on an archery elk hunt-10-15 days  - I have at least 5-6 sets of camo's  all as clean and scent free as possible and each stashed in the extra large zippo- for easy packing.

Showering in the woods  can be quite comical- for you guys in the north woods  are thinking  showers -- right! I've seen the hot  solar water bags - the guys with camp trailers and the outside hook-ups  have it easy. I'll warm water on the grill and do what i can - once a day  - if possible  to wash  and rinse. Keeping  clean can make the difference! plus you feel better . We've over the years had a set of - elderly gentelman- they bring one set / maybe 2  and wear it the whole season. They both are smokers and by the end of the 4-5 th day even I can smell them coming. The one guy will chew  juicyfruitgum inbetween smoking -  that smell is really  strong. i dont think they fill a tag very often - maybe a rifle hunt. Most  camps have fires - I never wear my camos around the fire  but will change into other clothes and  let the pair I wore for the day  air out over night- if possible!   enough said  about personel hygeine.

Do you use scents to attrack elk?  The ever famous  elk urine wafers. I bet i still have some in my hunting bag. pin it on your hat if you dare,takes a while to get use too.  Every year more new stuff hits the market - rutting  bull - elk fire - lots of choices. How many differnet bottles do you have. Has anyone  tried the new  elk herd  product  from  VS1--   http://huntingscents.esecureorder.net/scents/  click on the elk scent - I've heard nothing but good reports  from  some of the other products  they carry . I guess if you can't be scent free at least try  to be a familiar scent  of the woods.  Especially if  you  are a spot/stalk kind of hunter- mainly because we all know the wind is our worse  enemy!  I like to sit blinds near water holes  in the evening - especially after an unsuccessful  long day of hiking/stalking. I got into the habit of crushing the juniper needles -pine needles  and  spreading the scent on my camos. while i wait- A great cover-up scent is made by http://huntingscents.esecureorder.net/scents/.  this stuff works  great . For my elk hunts the juniper is my choice ! For desert hunts-deer - i switch to sage.

In my younger years  i'd step in every cow-pie  and pickup elk nurds  and rubbem in my cap - anything to smell like the woods- Guys  make their own out  scents out of items - twigs - leaves- dirt from there hunting areas  to tossin with camos - Here agin  everyone is diferent  in the way they hunt!

I.m not saying being scent free or using a sex scent  or a cover up  will make you a successful hunter . But it can make a difference !   Gary

 

Proper meat care makes for the best table fare

As far as scents go I have taken a bath in a lake in November, water temp around 45 degrees. Wasn't  a long bath but still a bath. Take military baths when not by a lake or stream. I also carry unscented baby wipes in my pack for when mother nature calls and you had chili last night. Sure helps keep you clean and baby soft. As far as the campfire smoke goes I have seen deer and elk in the middle of a controlled burn with stumps smoking around them while they ate. My conclusion was smoke doesn't effect them since they have that smell naturally occurring around them from time to time. As long as you are not using your campfire as a trash burn pit. Now human odor or other predators will make them high tail it out of the country. I don't use scent lock or cover scents but I do wash my clothes in non-phosperous detergent and pay attention to the wind always. I store my hunting clothes in those airtight plastic bags you can suck the air out of with a vacuum with pine or sage. Makes them easier to transport and keep normal household scents off them. 

Once known as 3does,1buck pre-"upgrade" : It is better to rule than to serve.

OK,.. now here's one I can jump in on Cover Scents and Scent Control.

Waaayyyyy back when I first started hunting I was introduced to cover scents by my father who was the person who introduced me to this new wonderful world of hunting. Back in those days there wasn't much to choose from and there were 3 sold on the market for hunters to utilize.

 

1. A paste like acorn scent that came in a metal pushup tube that you'd apply to just about every portion of your exposed skin like a deodorant stick.

2. A bottled liquid Skunk scent,.. I smelled it from the bottle just one time,.. it's bad enough having the real thing pay you a visit let alone purchasing the stuff !!

3. A bottle of Fox urine,.. didn't want it near me either.

 

As far as concealment there was camo back then, but the majority of the hunters at that time still believed in their Carhart's with black and red plad wool shirts and sometimes matching pants. There wasn't any such thing as scent lock suits, and all the other little gizmo's that they are trying to sell to all of us now.

 

 

I have always looked to the the hunting days of past for guidance.

 

 

These hunters of yesteryear always had huge bucks hanging in their camps,.. and also had the pictures to back up their claims of those big bucks. No gimics,.. they were pure hunters at heart who followed the basic rules of hunting,.. stay downwind, be as quiet as possible, and know where they feed and bed down.

 

I've always tried to follow those same basics whenever I hunt. 

 

I do believe in a cover scent,.. I personally like those "earth scent" wafers and wear them religiously. I also wear camo as I feel with the broken patterns they sport do help break-up your image of a large moving solid figured blob which I think they do notice. If they can't smell you, they may become leary of something they don't think as normal and can become quite challenging at times. (whitetails just love stomping their hooves at you to see if they can get you to move even the slightest bit). Unfortunatly I haven't gotten into a situation with that to test it out on Wapiti as of yet with the exception of that one spike-horn with Dean that year,... but Dean had a couple of cow calls goin' keepin' his attention thinking we were the oddest lookin' cow elks he'd ever seen.

 

I don't believe in all the hype,.. OR expense of these scent loc hunting outfits, and as far as the cover scents go,.. just storing your clothes in a closed plastic bag with some sort of man made cover scent, or a couple of pine baughs would do just fine by me. I'm not going to spend that kinda' money on hunting clothes to make some sales marketing dude's pockets any fuller of my hard earned $$.

 

Hell,.. just hang all your hunting gear outside where they can air out overnight if worse comes to worse. Might be a little chilly when you first put em on but after the first 10 minutes in them they will be just fine.

 

That $$ is better spent on reloading supplies, optics, rifles / rifle upgrades, etc. in my book!

 

 

Cover scent gum ?? Oh come on,... give a guy a break !!!

 

I'm not that gullable! But of course I'm sure there are some people who use it and hope it works.

 

If you stick with the basics of hunting your gonna' do just fine,.. those are my thoughts an' I'm sticking to them.  

 

 

. There's room for all Gods creatures,.. right next to the taters' an' gravy! ,.........
. Shoot Straight & Stay Safe ! ,..........
. Terry Webster,...
. NAHC Life Member,.
. NAFC Life Member,
. RMEF Sponsoring Member,..
. SCI Member,..
. Michigan Sportsman's Assoc.,
. NRA Life Member,..
. US Army - Nam' Veteran SGT E-5 1970-72 1st/327th /101st AB

Terry I think that is why the thread was named "elk hunting savvy" and not elk hunting technology. I agree with you 100%. With the new BDC scopes why would you worry about bullet trajectory when you can just range and put a circle where you want to hit? I haven't seen one that compensates for wind drift. Soon the hunters will lose the ability to calculate wind and elevation and lose the true skill of shooting just by putting a dot where it should be. How many hunters practice everyday on judging ranges when you can just use a laser rangefinder? What happens when you are on a wilderness hunt and the batteries die? Besides if you work on your true hunting skills enough you should be able to get close enough where range is not a factor. Some technology is good but I think we are going way overboard and losing the skills of yesteryear. Marketing to line somebodies pocket is the big part of it but the bigger part is hunters falling for the gimmics.

I am more interested in the skills of hunting and learning than buying the newest gadget to make it where I don't have to pay attention to the woods around me. "I can forget the wind and just hunt" to me means my senses are not at the top of the game, opposite of why I hunt. You can also keep your senses tuned year round if you rely on technology less and "hunt" year round.

Once known as 3does,1buck pre-"upgrade" : It is better to rule than to serve.