Hunting Forum

Hey bud,...

As of 10:00am this morning,... I'll be sittin' around the firepit with you this October,...

 

I DREW MY TAG!!

. There's room for all Gods creatures,.. right next to the taters' an' gravy! ,.........
. Shoot Straight & Stay Safe ! ,..........
. Terry Webster,...
. NAHC Life Member,.
. NAFC Life Member,
. RMEF Life Member,..
. SCI Member,..
. Michigan Sportsman's Assoc.,
. NRA Life Member,..
. US Army - Nam' Veteran SGT E-5 1970-72 1st/327th /101st AB

Great news Terry!!! Got off the phone with skud a bit ago, he told me you had drawn. YEE HAW!!!
I'll talk with ya soon!
Dean
H2O
Hunting Elk in a rainforest; ya haven't experienced it till ya had rain running down the crack of your *** 30 minutes out of camp. Formerly a Roosevelt Elk hunter on the Washington coast, now hunting them Rocky Mtn. ones, in Wyoming.

Back on topic.
One thing I've notice hunting Elk, the big bulls are very often lighter in color than the rest of the herd.  When I get into a bunch of em, I always look for a lighter animal first, then check everyone I can get my bow pin or cross hairs on.  Also, the bulls tend to be toward the end of the herd when they're traveling.  Found it often makes for a dilemma.  You have to wait for cows, calves, and small bulls to file past you, sometimes to only find there are no big bulls with em and you passed your shot at putting meat in the fridge.

Dean
H2O

Hunting Elk in a rainforest; ya haven't experienced it till ya had rain running down the crack of your *** 30 minutes out of camp. Formerly a Roosevelt Elk hunter on the Washington coast, now hunting them Rocky Mtn. ones, in Wyoming.

I have never had the best vision. Wore glasses since the 5th grade. I am right handed (shooting) but left eye dominant (my nickname should be lucky).

Anyway, for elk hunting I have adapted. When creeping around in the dark woods, I rely more on my nose and my ears.

I believe the stuff below is not news to successful elk hunters:

Remember elk smell. If you have never hunted them, the first time be aware of this fact. You can smell them for a distance. If something crashes the timber ahead of you but you don't see it - go to the area (from downwind) and you may have discovered that you just kicked up an elk, all by smell, even if you can't find the tracks right away. If elk have stayed in one location for awhile, their smell will be there for awhile also. After lots of experience you can tell what is fresh elk smell, and old elk smell. The best example is if there is melting snow or a slight thaw, and the melting snow is on elk crap, the smell starts to permeate. This would be old sign and to me it smells old, like a bitter barn smell. Fresh elk smells to me warmer and slightly stronger and more pungent. If you smell the stronger fresher smell, the elk are close or have just departed the area. I am always consciously aware of the smells in the woods. When I smell elk I always stop and scrutinize every tree, nook and cranny looking for that patch of fur. I am also listening for the dreaded thump, thump, crash, crash. etc.

 

An example that I can give also is this: I do not use cover scents - I have tried them, they do work. To me elk cover scent such as the cow piss, smells like elk, but to me it smells like old elk scent. Fresh elk scent to me is more pungent warmer (scense wise) and stronger. I have used cow cover scent in the past, just couldn't stand smelling like an elk back at camp. etc. Only put it on my boots, and the smell stays on the boots for a long time. The scent that I used more than once is anise extract. Smells like licorice. I believe this smell is natural in the Eastern United States, but not in the Rocky Mountains. I do not believe that it attracts elk, but the effect on Mule Deer was crazy. Mule Deer seemed to be interested in this scent, they would snort and run circles around me really just trying to find out what that scent was. I believe this scent attracts whitetails in the East. Muley's actually hung around while using Anise as a cover scent. I chose to use the wind in the direction I am going, wind at the back is what I stay away from, but you can also use wind at your back as an advantage. I try to keep the wind at my front, or quarter, and always keep an ear open towards the way the wind is blowing.

This is entriely different than glassing, and spot and stalk.

If glassing is not productive, go into the woods and listen, use your nose. The results may surprise you,

When I walk through the dark timber I take only a couple of steps then stop, listen, always smelling, and looking. scan at distance and close. Sometimes there will be an elk just standing there 10yards away that you didn't see. It is amazing that elk just materialize. Expect them when you least expect them.

Clothes - I am not a rich guy and can't afford some of the specialty items. I am slightly wary about Laundry detergents. I believe that elk and deer and other animals that don't see in color process UV light differently, there has been lots written on it. I wash my hunting clothes after the season without adding soap. There is enough residual soap in the washer. Any blood stains usually darken up over the years, and they look cool. Anyway, I do this because any brighteners degrade over time. The brighteners in laundry detergent reflect UV light so that your clothes look Bright to other humans. I believe that to an elk or deer, your clothes would look like a bright spot or definitely a lighter unatural spot to them.

There is laundry detergent especially to defeat this for hunters, I just have not purchased any.

YOUR FACE - If you have not won a Grizzly Adams look-a-like contest - Your face, unless you are dark complected is A BIG WHITE SPOT. If you are a duck hunter (or a bow hunter) you would understand. I don't use camo face paint, I do have some of those face camo pull over things but rarely use them. I try to avoid a direct blast of my face to an animal looking in my direction. I may be way off base, It may be because I am so ugly that a direct face look towards the animal scares them away.

Make all movements slowly, including raising your hands and moving your head. Quick movements scare them away if they are watching. Slow movements may keep them trying to figure out what you are.

 

Tom

Alright after reading the other posts I have a question.  Last fall I hunted deer in WY and while hunting through one area I found a whole lot of rubs on trees and then I came out to a small draw that was maybe 40 yards across and 100 yards long before it joined a creek.  This was approximately 1/4 to 1/2 mile from a road.  There were at least 2 different years worth of rubs on trees and a wallow.  I did not see any real sign of humans around there but if they were archery hunting their tracks would have been gone.  We hunted this area a couple different times and there were at least a set or 2 of new tracks on the road each morning. My Dad is 60 years old and had to go to a crossbow last fall b/c his shoulder no longer will allow him to pull a compound.  My question is if he hunts this area or any other area I would find with a hot wallow while I am hunting would he be better off hunting all day, mornings or evenings?  I am torn on trying a rifle hunt also with him but am concerned about his ability to make the hikes all day, everyday.  In WY crossbows are legal and I think this area looks good enough that if he hunted eastern whitetail style for several days I would hope he would get a chance. 

Any thoughts BTW this area is in the Medicine Bow NF and everywhere we hunted there were rubs.  The locals also told us that the herd seemed to be up last year so I am considering maybe buying a point this year and trying to draw a general tag next year.     

LawmanU27, NAHC LM, Formerly Hunteverything

Skud. Some good posts. I agree with everything you said.

The problem with cover scents is that they interfere with you own sense of smell which as you stated is a very useful sense.

 

You can purchase laundry soap at the grocery store that does not contain perfume or dyes for the same price as regular soap. Purex Free and Clear is one of the brands.

 

I  believe that if you don't move and they don't pick up your scent that deer and elk do not recognize you as a threat even if you are wearing blaze orange and are not behind cover.

BCrites- One good way to figure out the best time would be a trail cam. That will tell you when they're around and exactly what is around. If you're gonna do it whitetail style you might as well throw a camera in the mix. Personally I've never had good luck directly on a wallow. I've had shot opportunities, but it was early in my bowhunting career and I always seemed to give myself away. How I hate they sound of that "bark" followed by stomping hooves and cracking brush as I watch their tail ends trot away If you're huntung the rut though, rubs and wallows are always good spots to do some bugling or cow talkin'.

I have never seen an elk in a wallow, but that is because I am hunting rifle season. Usually there is water at or below that I have seen elk come into drink. H20 may have more useful info. By the time I am up there it has frosted or snowed a bit and wallowing seems like a distant memory.

I would imagine, if it is still hot - and there are bugs and you find a hot wallow - this would be a good spot. But the archers out there would have the good info.

jroode, thanks for the advice. I'll look around for that soap. And yes I forgot to mention that the scents have done just that, also if you have a cover scent on you you can figure out pretty quick if that wind is at your back, when there is a light breeze, cuz the smell will come around to the front of you.

 

It is amazing that an elk will stand there and look at you, while you are still. Mule Deer, I have noticed - will watch you pass by. If you never stop and look you will walk right past them.

Howdy there skud,.. looks like we'll probably be meeting each other in a few months,... 20 mule team borax is odorless laundry soap and there's also a formula out called "Scent Wash" which also helps eleminate the brightners left over from any previous washes. I like washing all my hunting gear and storing them in large plastic garbage bags with some cedar wood chips, or pine baughs and seal them. Makes for a natural cover scent that isn't too over powering.

 

 

. There's room for all Gods creatures,.. right next to the taters' an' gravy! ,.........
. Shoot Straight & Stay Safe ! ,..........
. Terry Webster,...
. NAHC Life Member,.
. NAFC Life Member,
. RMEF Life Member,..
. SCI Member,..
. Michigan Sportsman's Assoc.,
. NRA Life Member,..
. US Army - Nam' Veteran SGT E-5 1970-72 1st/327th /101st AB

Looking forward to the meet.

We have a pretty good camp. Last year was rough, there was too much snow to get the camp where we wanted, but we made do.

In my opinion the area is very beautiful. There are easy places to hunt to moderately rough. None are too hard as long as you take your time.

Dean knows a bunch of spots for only being up here two seasons. There are so many spots to choose from.

I will send you a PM. For some other stuff.

 

Tom

Thanks Tom,.. got your PM and sent back a reply.
. There's room for all Gods creatures,.. right next to the taters' an' gravy! ,.........
. Shoot Straight & Stay Safe ! ,..........
. Terry Webster,...
. NAHC Life Member,.
. NAFC Life Member,
. RMEF Life Member,..
. SCI Member,..
. Michigan Sportsman's Assoc.,
. NRA Life Member,..
. US Army - Nam' Veteran SGT E-5 1970-72 1st/327th /101st AB

Good stuff, thanks for sharing guys. I am planning my first elk hunt this fall. This is by far the most informative thread I have found on this BB. Great to have the insights from the guys with experience. Thanks! 
SFC, US ARMY(ACTIVE)/ LM NAHC/ LM NAFC/ MEMBER NRA/ - TAKE A KID HUNTING TODAY - THEY MAY TAKE YOU TOMORROW -

Great info guys!

I  agree with most everything!  One or two issues I have are with the 'easy to moderate' and the 'sneaking one foot at a time'.  Know I won't offend Skud by exasperating on these two.

Easy:  There is no easy Elk hunting IMO.  Every Elk I've taken has required real work, before the hunt, during, and after I pulled the trigger or let the arrow go.  Granted some Elk hunts are easier than others, and you can describe an Elk hunt, compared to another Elk hunt as easy or moderate, but I believe you can not be in to 'good' of shape to tackle these critters.  Recommend running steps, and working out, and even that may not help you with dealing with some of the altitudes you'll be dealing with.  But you will be better prepare for huntin the Wapiti.

'One step at a time', great idea when you know your close.  IE you can smell them, see em, spotted and stalked to cut them off, or on fresh (spread out) tracks, or in an area you just know is real Elky.  Rest of the time you'll need to be covering ground.  And I mean covering ground, as much area as you can.  Several was to do this; sitting on a point and glassing, driving around in a truck stopping periodically to glass, on horse back, bicycle, quad (fourwheeler), or on foot.  I prefer to use some motive of transportation to get me back in aways, and then spend the rest of the day on foot, stopping in the openings to glass and slowing down in those Elky areas in the dark timber to take a real good look around.  Rest of the time I'm covering ground fast (and ya better be in good shape to keep up), lookin for fresh sign (tracks, smell, droppings), that tells me I'm close enough to slow down.  In the same range that a Whitetail roams you can have 0 Elk, or maybe a herd of 250 with in a couple of hundred yards of each other.  You can spend a whole day covering a mountain and not see any.  You can go back a couple of days latter and tag a big bull laying in his bed, or jump a hundred, fifty yards from your boot tracks a couple of days ago!  Every step can bring you a shot, or get you busted!  But you have to cover a lot of ground if your even going to find them and have a chance at getting a shot.

BCRITES
I've never stand hunted Elk, but know from others I've hunted with that it works.  Elk will often water near the same place for a couple of days, bulls with often use the same wallow for a day or two if there is food and good cover for the rest of the herd nearby.  They often will cross roads or other obstacles in the same place. Often I have seen repeated rubs, year after year, in the same area.  I know that some Elk frequent certain places and often come back to them again and again.  Can’t say for sure if the place you’re speaking of is any of these.  But think if you’re seeing ‘fresh’ repeated use by Elk, it might be a good spot to set up on.  The key is ‘fresh’.  Elk may use an area for a couple of days and not be back there again for weeks or even a year or more.

 

Again GREAT INFO guys!  Keep it coming!

 

Dean

H2O

Hunting Elk in a rainforest; ya haven't experienced it till ya had rain running down the crack of your *** 30 minutes out of camp. Formerly a Roosevelt Elk hunter on the Washington coast, now hunting them Rocky Mtn. ones, in Wyoming.

I agree that the way elk move around that you cannot cover too much territory.  As Dean stated, they may be in one spot for a day or two and won't be back for God knows how long.   One good thing is that if you can get to a vantage point where you can see well, sit there and really use the binos.  Elk are big animals and their coloration makes it much easier to spot them than deer, unless they are really in the dark timber.

Hey Dean:  Watch Terry closely.  I hear he is so into that wapiti hunting that he even tosses a few horse apples in that clothes bag to lessen the human scent factor  

Topgun----30-06 NAHC LM NWTF US Army Vet Corp SP5 68-71

Great info guys.

 

As far as how to pattern elk it depends on the area you will be hunting.  How much preasure they get during the season whether it is a migrating herd or not.  As said before each day is different.  One of the most important things is to scout during the off season towards the end of summer and into fall right before the season.  I have been out a few times already and the other day a herd of about 700 head are wintering on some private land out in the flats.  This is a high concentration.  Of course there are only about 10 small bulls there.  I know there is a herd of 20-40 bulls that don't hang with the cows right now.  I just haven't found them yet.  I will though.  The preasure during the season changes the elks movements high preasure means they seek relief.  Low preasure means they will continue with what they do. 

 

Feeding areas  south facing slopes seem to be the best here due to snow goes off them quicker and they are in the sun light for the early morning feeding.  Great spot to get into before daylight and wait for them to start feeding. 

Bedding areas  cows will usually be scatered throughtout thick pockets of timber away from "felt" danger.  Bulls will be scatered throughout the cows but bigger bulls tend to hang towards the tops of ridges or nearest to the quickest exit.  (bulls will go straight up to get away from danger 90% of the time whereas cows will use trails more often)  When the bulls aren't with the herds the big ones are in the deepest thickest hardest terrain you can find.

Trails  hard to determine what path the elk will take on which day but if you find that one trail they use most often then you up your odds.  Usually ones that offer the most cover are the best choices.  Or where 2 trails become one.  Once they commit to going they go and go fast so be ready.  Even walking they can cover ground like no tomorrow.

Calls I don't use a bugle I use about 5 different cow talks I will cow talk a few mews while I hike.  Have talked elk in from up to 1000 yards away.  Like shooting this takes practice and lots of it.  If you are going to get a new call for this year get it now and practice.  Don't wait till the last minute to buy one.  Give yourself some time to perfect it.  The best way is to record a series of calls and then record a series of your calls and compare the 2.  Remember no 2 elk sound the same you need to sound like an elk but you don't have to sound exactly the same.  Don't just sit and call calll call if you ever hear elk talk they mew then listen so give your series and listen for a bit.  When big bulls come in they don't make a sound (I know it is hard to beleve but it is true)

 

Hope some of this helps.

 

 

 

 

OTSS, Disclaimer-All views and opinions in this post are of my own and not subject for change as I can think what I want when I want and will not be held acountable for the pissing and moaning brought on by reading said words. G&M Wild Game Processing, Helena, MT "You Guttem We Cuttem" Mike R. Life Member Since 2001

I don't know if I can add much, I think the elk are more savvy of me than I am of them.

 

Elk do seem to have a pattern to there movements but that pattern changes with the seasons and the pattern isn't a daily pattern but more like a loose monthly pattern.  I know an old lady who has been living in the same house in the foothills of the Cascades for longer than I have been alive. She has a herd of elk that frequent her pasture. She says they will spend a few days to a week around her pasture then dissapear for a couple of weeks to a month then they are back. They have been doing this forever so it is definitely a pattern but not one you can rely on if you have only a week or so to hunt.

 

So my advice is to spend as much time as possible year round looking for elk, remembering where you see them and realize that they will be back there again. When hunting season roles around go from one of these places to another until you find them. Don't wait for them to come and find you. Like Dean I do not hunt from a stand. Mostly because I am too antsy to sit still for more than 15 minutes. But a stand can work if you have found the elk and can get between their bedding area and their feeding or watering area. I hunt mostly with my ears. Elk are noisy. They are big so they make noise when they move and they are very social so they talk to each other continuously. So more often than not you will hear them before you see them. I don't bugle. Unless you are some kind of expert, I am not,  more often than not bugling just tells the elk where you are. You may not scare them off but it is hard to approach an elk once you have announced your presence.

 

 I am strictly a bow hunter when it comes to elk and getting close to elk when there is always a dozen or more pairs of eyes and a dozen or more noses there to detect you is tough. When they do detect you they seem to explode and dissapear in a cloud of dust. When this happens the tendency is to say "dammit I blew it" and go looking for another herd. But that may be the wrong thing to do. Even though they look like they won't stop running until they reach the next county that is rarely the case. The calm down quickly and can be approached again and again. The trick is though, not to follow them. They always watch their backs and will see you coming every time. Learn the area and where the elk are likely to go once spooked and take off as fast as you can without hurting yourself and try to circle around and get ahead of them for an ambush. Sometimes you may spook them again but just keep trying until you wear out or get one. Some of my favorite memories of hunting are of days spent playing this cat and mouse game.

Big Lance

"obxman58
Nice bull in the avitar!  Tell us how ya got him an the savvy you used."

"When big bulls come in they don't make a sound (I know it is hard to beleve but it is true)"

 

opening day of blackpowder 3 years ago.myself,D W Poole,another lifer Marc Martin and my son madeup our party.

my son and me had done 6 miles fromcamp[according to gps]and the only elk we had seen was a lone cow that busted us in a logging road.pretty cool because the cow barked at us,and Austin had never heard one bark.other than that,no bugle-ing.....nothing.

after lunch,both of us went over to an area where i had killed a raghorn.  it was 1400 and unfortunately,my son decided he wanted to nap in the truck[it was awfully warm]and i tried to convince him to nap in the woods.too bad as it was the first year he wasold enough to carry a gun,and he could have killed this bull.

the logging road was only a mile and 1/2 and then dead ended.i love to still hunt and just leisurely walked down the road,trying to stay in the shade.i had a hootcie mama and several diaphrams,along with a grunt tube.i had only been chirping on a diaphram and hitting the hootchie mama when i was stopped dead in my tracks by what sounded like a bugle back from where i had just came.

i cow called a few more times and din't hear anything so i hit a big scream on the grunt tube and was instantly answered by a bugle which i could barely hear.so i started cow calling and then every few minutes would toss in a bugle.he would answer every time i bugled and i honestly thought it was another hunter......then nothing!all of a sudden i saw his rack bobbing and weaving through the trees.he had covered a good piece of land and almost busted me,so i do believe he was trying to sneek in.i literally sat down on the edge of the logging road because he got there so quick,and all i could see was his rack,neck and upper chest looking in my direction.i already had the smokepole up and resting on my knee,but he just stood there staring in my direction for what seemed like an eternity,so I slowly squeezed out another chirp on the hootchie and then just like it was scripted,he walked out in the road and stood broadside at 38 paces.

just after the smoke cleared,i heard another bull bugle from behind me,and equally as far away.I found mine 40 yards down in the woods.sweet......love it when theres a short drag to the truck!

so,my thoughts are,hunt all day,especially during the rut.and just like turkey hunting,when you think they are close,put the call down,or at least muffle the call to make the bull think he still has a ways to go and might not be "on guard".i have also heard that the lead cow will come investigate an un-welcome cow call as competition?

 

 

 

 

LM since 1995,NRA,Sons of Confederate Veterans.Colorado Springs,Colorado.

Awesome obxman - Great story.

 

Geez dean, what I meant to say was the terrain is easy to moderate. Easy where you was hunting, hard where I was hunting

It actually was flat where we pulled the bull out - that was easy (terrain) but I know we both have seen the rough stuff up there.

I hate it when the terrain eats your boots and you leave the woods barefoot.

 

Tom

 

that brings me to boots.

Good quality boots. Don't wear hiking boots so I don't sprain my ankle. Lots of Rock and steep slopes where I hunt.

I buy not the most expensive boots, but I do look for at least solid construction, full grain leather on the leather parts. And I prefer a harder sole so I can get an average of between 2-3 years out of them. I think I get more use out of the boots because I always have at least 2 pairs of boots to hunt in. I also have another pair of cheapy boots to change into at camp.

I change boots daily, nothing like starting the next morning in boots you sweated in the day before when it is 10 degrees in the morning. Cold feet.

So when I add a new pair, I wear them for at least a couple of weeks before hunting season to break them in. I have had people show up with new boots and be miserable with blisters after a couple of days.

I walk a lot, so I don't like too much insulation, I usually get boots with 800 gram thinsulate. I think the amount of insulation has to be a personal choice based on how much you walk and how sensitive you are to the cold.

I usually wear two pairs of socks, One just regular tube socks, and a pair of insulated socks over them. I believe this also helps in defeating blisters, as this as standard way to do things when I was in the Navy, on my feet all day in the most comforatble clod hoppers you could ever imagine.

Whatever socks you choose, make sure you have them when you are buying your boots, wear them when you are trying the boots on. Make sure that you can tighten the boots up. Too loose and you may get blisters. The boots may give a little as they break in.

Tom 

Thanks for the replys to my post guys. 

H2O--Is it feasible to actually ride a mountain bike out there?  I have found only 1 trail, rails to trail, that I think I could ride a bike on.  I have thought about using a bike but I am also looking at a map of the area I have hunted to see if this trail goes anywhere where there is little to no access by roads.  Also am I off base when I look at a map and try and find the most roadless area to hunt?  I would think this would be a good area just because I would have to put effort into getting in and getting an animal out. 
 
After my last trip and first DIY out west I learned a lot and will be in the process of upgrading some different gear and staying in shape.  I was in the best shape so far for my hunts out west and I felt and the end of the day I could have still hiked more and pushed harder. 

Looks like good info posted so far.

Brian 

LawmanU27, NAHC LM, Formerly Hunteverything