so, according to your conspiracy theorist, look up what people say about this guy you want us to read, agenda 21, which is NOT a united states law, is being pushed down your/our throats?  maybe you should loosen that tin foil hat.  explain how a non federal law can be pushed down your throat.  this should be good.  last time you tried this, you were embarassed.  leave it alone. 

and what's this crap about farmers?  post where I said anything about farmers.  FYI, my family are rich farmers dumbass.  grandpa, uncles, father, and now my brothers and I.  on paper, where we own the farm land, at 400 acres, you are considered a millionaire.  so, again, post where I said anything about farmers and{1}**** them.

you'd think you'd learn.  thanks for proving me wrong.  and since you didn't answer the question, go back and answer the question I asked after your picture post.  that way, noone can say I made a fool out of you.  you can do it yourself.  again.  go away whack job.

"California Representative Wally Herger offered an article on Agenda 21 which, unfortunately, reflects a lack of knowledge about Agenda 21 — shared by far too many elected officials."

"Actually, the document was adopted by 179 nations, including the signature of George H.W. Bush. A nation's signature on a U.N. document obligates the nation to do nothing in opposition to the goals of the document, and to promote implementation of the document's recommendations. Agenda 21 is not a treaty subject to Senate ratification. It was never intended to be a treaty. (Bill Clinton signed the Kyoto Protocol. Because his signature obligated the U.S., George W. Bush took the unusual action to have the U.S. signature removed from the document.) At the same conference, however, two treaties were adopted by the U.N.: The framework Convention on Climate Change, signed by Bush and ratified by the Senate; and the Convention on Biological Diversity, not signed by Bush, signed by Clinton, but not ratified by the Senate.

Nothing in Agenda 21 is legally binding on any government until a government — at any level — adopts an Agenda 21 recommendation as a law or ordinance, or as an Executive Order such as EO 12852 issued by President Bill Clinton in 1993 in response to Agenda 21 recommendation 8.7:

"Governments, in cooperation, where appropriate, with international organizations, should adopt a national strategy for sustainable development..."

Posted By Big Dawg on 25 Dec 2012 01:50 PM
Agenda 21 is not a conspiracy theory and is alive and doing well with the help of those pols who feel it is the best for us.

"according to your conspiracy theorist"

sources have described Jones as a conservative^[3][4][5][6] and as a right-wingconspiracy theorist.^[

<sup>never said it was a conspiracy theory. 

"</sup> Nothing in Agenda 21 is legally binding on any government until a government — at any level — adopts an Agenda 21 recommendation as a law or ordinance".  if people are letting their local governments pass this crap, then it's thier own fault.  and just looked at a list.  less than 25% of the country has done anything with it.  and more and more are fighting against this crap.  and if you look at the list, there seems to be a common thread about these places.  here's the link.

http://dailyright.net/post/2011/02/23/Has-Agenda-21-Invaded-Your-City-Yet-(Dozens-of-cities-listed-here).aspx

have no idea why some of this is so small.

how fuggin stupid are you holly?  is it that you can't read?  or is it you can not understand what you read?  let's try this again for you dumbass......

Nothing in Agenda 21 is legally binding on any government until a government — at any level — adopts an Agenda 21 recommendation as a law or ordinance". if people are letting their local governments pass this crap, then it's thier own fault. and just looked at a list. less than 25% of the country has done anything with it. and more and more are fighting against this crap. and if you look at the list, there seems to be a common thread about these places. here's the link.

http://dailyright.net/post/2011/02/...here).aspx   

copy and paste this link and it will show you the cities/towns/whatever you want to call them, where this stuff is.

now, go back and answer the question where you posted the pictures.

Posted By holly on 25 Dec 2012 09:18 PM
One of the most liberal papers in my area .


Sacramento Bee post I made on the Agenda 21 article today:

I think it is very irresponsible to use LABELS to manipulate and make subliminal and overt suggestions. Word association is a weapon of any author! This article is troubling for me on so many fronts.



Agenda 21 is something the laissez-faire American is just now recognizing and in some cases, attempting to become familiar and hopefully knowledgeable regarding the general and the core philosophy. This has become a major power struggle and is not about Agenda 21 but in fact is about the undefined roles of overlapping regulatory enforcers; the definition of plan, rules vs. Laws; the definition of Local Authority vs. Federal and the erosion of Local Law; the manipulative definition of trails and roads; the definition of time line and the 1872 Mining Law; the seemingly lack of transparency; the definition of TWO cultures rapidly moving to the intersection where conflict will occur; and the art of obfuscation and wordsmithing which always perpetuates distrust. Agenda 21 may have a vector but once in place beware as it removes and curtails certain flexibility freedoms and that is the latent and growing overt FEAR. It seems veiled. In some cases, the so called labeled "greenies (according the labeling public) are buying up ranches and ranch water rights on the borders of the designated corridor. Millions have been spent thus far from well funded groups. The herding of the Sheeple has been conditioned through much media which is good and bad about the environment. The so called labeled (according to the labeling public and lazy journalists) non-greenies have no major group to rally around and limited funding notwithstanding no Brand in the American public. Money vs. Non Money in a capitalistic society in marketing and branding is a kiss of death. One of the core issues is the value of humans vs. non humans. While seniors and Children go to be hungry at night, do you make sure that the Tortoise is safe and nurtured? Hopefully, this debate will wake up Americans to vote and monitor their representatives' choices and in some cases rhetoric, with a more discerning eye. Public lands are being taken monthly. China is buying land in Idaho. The federalization of public lands is full force with momentum and precedent. The matrix of Laws buried in the middle of a 1000 page Bill will forever lock in Laws that will be very difficult to reverse as recently suggested by the Sec of Interior, Salazar, report before the House Committee on Natural Resources on the 2013 President's Budget Request dated Feb 15, 2012. In talking to some public official recently about public lands we asked them did they know that one could stake a mining claim and mine public lands heretofore. They responded naively....really, you can do that? This response was from leaders in local government. Was it Gorbachev who said....Americans will hang themselves and then give you the rope?

Posted By holly on 25 Dec 2012 09:25 PM
Hell even some counties in your state belong to them .


Agenda 21 – ICLEI Update: 138 ICLEI Members Quit ICLEI in 18 Months! We Got ‘Em on the Run!

http://www.varight.com/news/agenda-...n-the-run/

Posted By holly on 25 Dec 2012 09:31 PM
This is a subject being tought in collage


http://www.infowars.com/u-n-backed-...-in-texas/

really?  again, do you comprehend what you read?  from YOUR article that YOU posted...........

"The Republican National Committee adopted a resolution in January against Agenda 21 as “a comprehensive plan of extreme environmentalism, social engineering, and global political control.” The Texas Republican Party followed suit at its state convention in June, adding opposition to Agenda 21 to the party’s platform."

any other things you want to look stupid about?  and it's already been established that the guy you keep quoting and posting articles from is a conspiracy theorist.  loook it up yourself.

Nothing in Agenda 21 is legally binding on any government until a government — at any level — adopts an Agenda 21 recommendation as a law or ordinance". if people are letting their local governments pass this crap, then it's thier own fault. and just looked at a list. less than 25% of the country has done anything with it. and more and more are fighting against this crap. and if you look at the list, there seems to be a common thread about these places. here's the link.

Posted By Lunkerdog on 26 Dec 2012 01:11 AM
Posted By TLC on 25 Dec 2012 09:21 PM

Nothing in Agenda 21 is legally binding on any government until a government — at any level — adopts an Agenda 21 recommendation as a law or ordinance". if people are letting their local governments pass this crap, then it's thier own fault. and just looked at a list. less than 25% of the country has done anything with it. and more and more are fighting against this crap. and if you look at the list, there seems to be a common thread about these places. here's the link.

http://dailyright.net/post/2011/02/...here).aspx   




TLC, can you connect some dots for me?

I understand that agenda 21 is non binding unless municipalities enact laws or ordinances, but it would seem as tho some are. The link provided within the link you provided almost seems too support the conspiracy theory, here are the first and last paragraphs of that article.

"Most Americans are unaware that one of the greatest threats to their freedom may be a United Nations program known as http://www.un.org/esa/dsd/agenda21/index.shtml">Agenda 21. The United Nations Department of Economic and Social Affairs, Division for Sustainable Development created Agenda 21 as a sustainability agenda which is arguably an amalgamation of socialism and extreme environmentalism brushed with anti-American, anti-capitalist overtones."  again, if they are unaware, then it's their own fault for being stupid.  all the towns I have lived in have ALWAYS listed what was on the agenda for that nights particular meeting.  people can go and voice their opinions on what is being discussed.  as has been said many times.  you can't fix stupid.


"Regardless of political orientation, two indisputable facts remain. Agenda 21 is a direct assault on private property rights and American sovereignty, and it is coming to a neighborhood near you."  read above.  also, if you live inside city limiots, would bet a paycheck that there are already rules and regulations for what you can and can not do with/on your property.  most places call them ordinances.  fence rules, pool rules, height of grass rules, type and size of house you can build.  list goes on and on.  have no idea why it won't let me underline this response.


I did realize a bit of irony as I read that article. I've recently read a book by Thomas Sowell titled "The Housing Boom and Bust. In that book Sowell discussed zoning practices that to me seem to be the antithesis of the zoning practices that are described in the link as the practices of agenda 21 supporters. Sowell made a correlation between those zoning practices, and there relationship to the cost of housing in certain areas. I'm not sure what kind of construction you worked in, but if it was residential you've probably got a better idea about that than I, but I do understand the basics of it.

One of the scariest parts of the article in relation to the book is to realize that the actions of our federal government regarding housing seem to be very much in line with the goals of those stated in the article about agenda 21. I should clarify that I'm talking about folks like Barney Franks, and Christopher Dodd, and the debacle they helped to create in the housing market.

Also, as far as the common thread with the list in your link, I'm thinking that your making a red vs. blue connection but am not sure. I did see areas/places that I would not consider to be blue, but I'm no expert on that so I may be wrong. The list does seem to be overwhelmingly blue, but again, I'm no expert.

and if you read what I said, less than 25%, and probably closer to 10%, have done anything with it. that's the cities/villages/towns or whatever the area calls them. that does not count the same that have ruled against this stuff.

shit!!!  never said it was a conspiracy theory.  said the guy, alan jones, is known as a conspiracy theorist.  to be a conspiracy, it has to be hidden from common view.  they are not doing that.

didn't read the book, so can't really say much about that.  but, zoning rules/laws/ordinances are nothing new.  new construction projects, whether a single house, or a complete subdivision, have always(recent times for those that want to pick something out),had to be approved by the appropriate entity.  county, city, whoever oversaw the particular area.  so agenda 21 has no effect on that whatsoever.  would you want someone else's sewer line running thru your property if they had to do a repair?  same with phone, electric, cable, water.

housing.  this is one of the best things that has ever happened for the construction industry.  the agenda crap really did nothing to it.  each induividual town/village/city, whatever, still makes their own rules and regulations for their building codes.  what they did is make a standard set of rules for the entire country.  why is this good?  well, now, no matter where one works, the basics are always going to be the same.  so, instead of having to learn the codes for the west, midwest, upper midwest, east, etc., they are all the same BASICS.  what you would have to do, is to find out what the individual entities have for their rules.  way back when, when they did this, one local town went with the new BOCA codes.  period.  well, what that meant was that a house built where I am from, had to be built the same as they did where you are.  WTF???  why does a house that's built in an area where the snowfall amount is less than where you are, have to be built the same as where you are?  you had insulation issues.  wall thicknesses of 2X6 instead of 2X4?  frost lines were determined to be as low as your area.  needless to say, they didn't get many permit applications until they went with their own codes.  which matched the rest of the area.  more history.  what the new BOCA codes did do is that any home that deals with the feds, HUD, RDA, etc., has to be built to certain standards.  best example are trailers, or modulars, or whatever they are called up there.  they all have to be built to the new BOCA standards.  makes it easier for those companies.  they do not have to worry about meeting certain REGIONAL codes.  the west, midwest, etc..

extremely blue cities that have passed these rules.  hope this helps?

"I was referring to zoning, IE. Farm/residential/commercial/parks, which as far as I know is different than building codes. Tho no doubt somewhere along the line they are somewhat interconnected."

OK, now I know what you are talking about.  this is easy.  again, plans have been around for years as to what cities/towns/etc. all have layouts for what has been built, and what can/will be built.  the zoning plans have been around for years.  town "X" may want to expand to the south inside of their township boundaries.  I own the farmland.  I submitted plans way back when to develope the farmland into a subdivision.  the city approves it.  now, the developement will not happen overnight.  so, when we start addition 1, we submit plans to what will be there and where.  lots, electric lines, water lines, sewer lines, roads, etc..  now, the town has already approved this way back when.  but, so they can collect more $$$, they do it all again.  once this addition is done, all lots sold, the process starts all over again.  in addition to this, the town has to approve the house that's going on the property.  must meet all recess codes.  distances from property lines, etc..  do all towns meet their growth agendas?  nope.  but, the plans are still on file.  what is commercial is already determined in the zoning layout they have approved at some time.  let's face it.  no one wants a walmart warehouse in their back yard.  most towns will hire a "city planner" for this work.  bigger towns will have them on the payroll.  same goes with all other properties.  parks, in towns, are usually added to the property owners plans as a "gift" to the village.  the village furnishes the toys for the parks.  swings, b-ball courts, lites, etc..

think this is what you were looking for.

Posted By holly on 26 Dec 2012 09:52 PM
Then we come to San Francisco that has passed codes that all new apartments being built have to be less than 800 sq.ft .To me that is going to far as the house we sold when we started traveling had a family room that big ..Building lots have went from 60x100 feet to 40x50 .And they say it is all for biodiversity ,and sustainability .It is a sore subject with me .Just trying to close everybody in .

one, why would you compare a house to an apartment?  two different things.  two, let's look at the lot sizes you are talking about.  the government can NOT change a developers plans.  the developer has the sole right to change lot sizes.  now, why would one do that?  how many houses could go on a 40X50 lot?  especially when you have a 20 foot recess on all sides of the house?  now, how many lots would you have to buy to put that house on?  so now, the developer is selling TWO lots, for more than he would have gotten for one lot.  has nothing to do with anything but $$$.  three.  who is making out on the smaller apartment sizes?  the government?  or the developer?  let's see, one extra apartment per floor.  let's say it's a 5 story building.  that's five extra apartments the developer is going to collect rent on.  again, who is benefitting?  the governent makes no more money.  all of that goes to the developer. 

and calling bul{1}**** on the family room that is 800 sq. ft.  have seen tons of houses over the years.  not a single one had one room that big.

Posted By TLC on 26 Dec 2012 11:

and calling bul{1}**** on the family room that is 800 sq. ft.  have seen tons of houses over the years.  not a single one had one room that big.

OK TLC .What I am saying on the building lots .That is minimum lot size .If a builder wants to go bigger that is their choice .  no, that would be the homeowners choice.  unless the builder is doing a spec house.  building a house in speculation of selling it down the road.  But most go with the smaller size to build more houses .Its the $$$ that they are after .  ok, that's what I said above.  And as for the apartments .The average size in S.F.is 1500 square feet .And now they wont them built at 800 sq.ft .That is half the size .That would double the apartments all most .  and as I said above, it's all about the money.  so what's your point?

 As far as my family room size .It had 12x12 beams in the ceiling .The main support all the way down the center .It was all bolted together .No nails in that part .And had a volted ceiling . this doesn't make sense.  but, without a drawing, or picture, it usually doesn't.  like trying to describe a cloud.

Oh and on the 20 foot recess .it is 20 feet from the center of the road here .And a 5 ft from the property line to the structure .I don't know what your laws are .  ok, so this means that the house can not be any bigger than 30 width by 25 length.  the road one makes no sense at all.  unless you mean that the front door has to be at least 20 feet from the center of the road?  still makes for a small house.  what we would call cookie cutter homes.

And LD as far as the Agenda 21 goes .That effects me and many others that are miners before it does many others .We are shut out of our mining areas and our roads are shut off to get to them .  YOUR mining areas?  you mean the minerals that you are taking off of federal lands(owned by taxpayers)for free?  not that you answer questions, but why do you feel you should be able to go where you want, mine where you want, for free?  does texaco, sunoco, plaxico, or bp get to do this on federal lands?  explain why you(miners)feel you should get to do this for free.  We feel that first.As a hunter it is not as bad .That is why I stay on top of that .