heres a question I have run into a few times over the years,what do all of you think? hunter shoots deer,elk,etc and wounds it.It then runs across hunt boundary do you shoot it to put it out of its misery?I have been told this is illegal but I believe it is the hunters responsability to retrieve no matter the repercusions.what say you?

if you are violating the law? no. if you walk onto marked property with a loaded firearm without permission in many locales you are committing a felony and putting your freedom, right to hunt and right to own firearms at risk.

In a case like this , you contact the landondowner and ask if you can go to recover the animal.

I sometimes hunt elk near the Crater Lake National Park. The law is that if a wounded animal crosses the boundary you must contact the park rangers and they will track it and determine if you can retrieve the animal or must leave it. If the ranger is an animal rights type, I guess your SOL. It would go against my grain to give up on the animal and get the rangers because I am probably a better tracker then they are and the time it would take to get them out there would be time waisted. Also would hate to have them tell me I couldn't retrieve the animal but... I would probably get the ranger.

The ethical thing to do would be to go after the animal yourself and the proper thing to do would be what the law says.

A couple of years ago I was approached by a couple of rangers and they were kind of snotty acting as they asked if I knew I was hunting close to the park. I told them that I probably knew where the boundary was better than they did. One said he doubted that so I informed him that I was the one who posted the boundary a year earlier right after a big wild fire. He then agreed that I indeed probably knew better than he did.

If I remember correctly down in LA you have to right to retrieve wounded or down game on anyones property as long as the animal was legally shot on the property you were allowed to hunt before it entered the property in question. I dont believe, however, that you are allowed to carry your firearm while retrieveing your kill on the property. This is only as I remember it. I tried to look it up but our dwf website doesnt always list all of its regulations concerning certain things. Can be a pain in the a**!

It has been a while since I have posted on topics like this, these always get me into trouble

That never stopped me before however, so I am gonna wade right into it

Ethics. This is gonna hurt, but it will feel better when you think about it for a while.

Shooting game that gets onto other property is a risk we take when going afield and getting close to assigned borders. It is upon us to know where we are standing, where our bullets, once fired, and where our game, once hit, may go.

I have thought about this in great depth over the years, because in Florida where I hunted normally was a small area of property (15 acres  in a strip about 600 feet wide) and this was a real concern. I resolved in that situation that I had to be SURE of every shot and what was behind it. Fortunately, it was so densely wooded that my shots were all backstopped by fairly large pine trees.

That being stated (and those of you whom have visited me there know what I am talking about), if a bullet ends up in your neighbors wall or window (or your neighbor) most states conclude that intent follows the bullet. A grave issue indeed. Game that is shot on the edge of property, or gut shot a ways in, becomes a decision we make, regardless of how it happens. Just like that bullet, the game animal can travel if no measures (such as better aim or restricting ourselves to farther into the location, or just avoiding those places that are bad like that geometrically when we hunt), are taken to prevent them, those things are GOING TO HAPPEN.

So, in the end of things, just like all other ethical dilemmas, it comes down to us. Are we going to risk it, and if so, how much ethical risk is "worth" the potential  reward? I plainly state that I DID hunt my property, even though it was narrow, but I passed on shots that were iffy because I was concerned that I might hit my neighbors houses. I DID have a gun range behind my house that saw some 2000 lbs (I am not kidding here, R&D in the bullet casting business was something I took VERY seriously, regardless of how much I used to gripe about not having enough shooting time-are you kidding? There is NEVER enough shooting time!) head downrange. I made SURE about what was happening there because most of it was in the form of rifle and magnum handgun lead, and as we were generally piercing plate steel with every shot on most of it, backstops and ricochets were foremost in mind.

I do admit that at times the temptation to take that shot was there. I do admit that in the short term I was grinding my teeth when I did not take it. But I also did not have to explain anything to anyone, unlike my OTHER neighbor did, when his .44 BP slug went through my wall, bounced off my office door, and came to a rest at my feet in my office, oddly enough, while I was posting just this sort of reply in fact, on this very forum, in December of 2007. I knew it was his because I examined the slug and it was MY BULLET. I had given him a box of them when he bought a .44 Remington Model 1858 revolver from me. Man, was HE embarassed when I called and said, "Can you come over for a sec, I have a present for you..".  For those who think a BP revolver has no range, his place was almost 500 feet away, and he confessed to being on his front deck...

Folks, it is on us, and us alone, to keep our hunting rights and shooting rights. It is on us to protect those around us from, well, US. Nobody is going to do it for us. We only hurt our cause when we do something that puts our garbage on someone else's  lawn, regardless of how it got there.

So here is the REAL question, "Do you take that shot to begin with, or do pass on it and get a little deeper into the woods, spend more than one range session a year, fire more than a few bullets in that rifle in less than ideal positions and ranges, and open some texts to learn anatomy of your prey? It is a fairly simple question to answer, and all excuses aside (yeah, yeah, I know, lifetime hunting situation, animal moved wrong, animal should have fallen, yada yada yada, all that is inconsequential and beside the point), ethics means that you do the RIGHT thing, even when you think nobody is looking (or can get hurt). That means that sometimes, you MUST let the critter get into a better situation, EVEN IF it meas you don't get the shot. Everything else is just, well, self serving desires that can get you in trouble, ie. non-ethical behavior.

Posted By gehee on 21 Dec 2010 10:51 PM
if you are violating the law? no. if you walk onto marked property with a loaded firearm without permission in many locales you are committing a felony and putting your freedom, right to hunt and right to own firearms at risk.

Also ENTIRELY correct!

Posted By coyoteslayer on 21 Dec 2010 08:01 PM
heres a question I have run into a few times over the years,what do all of you think? hunter shoots deer,elk,etc and wounds it.It then runs across hunt boundary do you shoot it to put it out of its misery?I have been told this is illegal but I believe it is the hunters responsability to retrieve no matter the repercusions.what say you?

And in specific reply to this specific question (man, it is SO much easier if that shot had not been taken to BEGIN WITH) it is up to the person who launched the bullet, arrow, spear, whatever, to go to whomever has authority over that property(ies) and get permission from said landowner/entity to retrieve said game, BEFORE dispatching it. Yes, it is going to be miserable for the gut shot animal, but if you shot it that way, that's YOUR fault, and unfortunately, that is why you are supposed to be elsewhere shooting at game. You should have been a better custodian in the first place. The suffering of that animal is now squarely on the shooters bad judgement. Pure and simple. That is not your game animal now, yet you still are required by ethics to notify someone so that THEY can make decisions that fit their own ethics about that animal that belongs to THEM now. And before someone says the animals belong to everyone, take a look at what happens when someone shoots one out of season and the authorities find out about it (or if I do).

That is why I always wince before posting on these topics, because of the backlash I am going to get later, but that is also why I do it at each opportunity, because if there is heat headed my way, someone is at least going to THINK before they squeeze off a round in the direction of MY house again. Of course, it may also someday GENERATE one headed my way, but that is the price one pays for standing up I suppose. (They had better make the first one count though, I was well equipped before, I have more/better now..)

By the way, that neighbor? I just did the math and he was actually 600 feet away...

Bill,

I have hunted all over the place...I want to say this first.. you are right...if for what ever the reason you question the shot don't take it...no lets move on you made a statement about the deer not belonging to everyone..in Ct that is true...but not in all places...in ct for example the deer belongs to the state until you have properly regestered it...either by taking it to a check station or calling it in to the DEP for your comformation #...also in Ct if I shoot a deer and it goes onto anothers property it is still my responsibility to recover that deer...knocking on doors and asking and getting permission of the landowner...is what is required..the land owner has the right to refuse...all well and good...his land his right..it is not, however, his right to recover that deer for his own use...what is supposed to happen is that you call the DEP explain the situation...they will, if not bogged down with some stupid task assigned by our AG,...come out and either explain the laws to the land owner or recover the deer for you or obtain premission for you to recover the deer...the land owner is not required to grant permission...however very few ever refuse the COs...Hunting in Vt I did not even have to ask...all I had to do was make sure the property was not posted..I always did ask though and really never had a problem with anyone I ever asked..suprised a few by asking but never had a problem...

That is indeed interesting, TT.

In Florida it depended on the game in question, hogs became "property of the landowner on whose property they occur", and there are similar situations in other places. If that game animal belonged to everyone, I wonder why the DNR can take it from the landowner if the landowner told you "no, you cannot finish off that wounded animal on my lawn..."?

Bill,

my fault, in CT the deer does not belong to everyone it belongs to the State..until such time you have the conformation of kill #...or as we say "tag it.."..hogs in Fl are a differnt spector all together..I have a younger brother that lives near the city of the Mouse (he actually works for them) and have hunted quite abit down there with him...with quanity of hogs that they have the DNR uses "if it's on your land it's your's" rule because of the damage they can do crops livestock and anything else they deside to root around in...can you imagin the cost of restitution just in crop damage alone...it would bankrup the state in a year...deer on the other hand are considered a renewable resourse...As I mentioned my brother lives there..he hunts mostly public land...that said... during a hunt he shot a deer with his bow and it took off...his son started yelling that it was getting away (he was 10-12 at the time) well the deer ran and went mush further than it normally would have, right onto a ranch..that was posted about every 30 feet...we could not see the deer from the state land so we went and talked to the people living in the house at the front of that land..asked if he was the owner..he wasn't but he was the ranch manager and told us that the owner would not let anybody on the land to hunt...basically told us no you can't go get the deer...my brother called the DNR a CO came out and told the manager that he was taking us on the property and recovering the deer...so does the deer belong to the land owner, everybody or the State? ?...you have to tag and report the kill (most of this is because it's a way to track and estamate the herd)...but if the deer belonged to who ever owns the land then why would we have to buy the tag?..so who owns the wildlife???

TT,

That is my point precisely. We sure don't own the deer. If we did, why even call the DNR for a border crossing, it becomes a 'my apple fell on your side of the fence issue' and every state has rules about that independently (states rights kick in, as they should)? You still of course have to deal with the landowner, while that gut shot deer is writhing on his front lawn, and you SURE better not shoot it again from your side of the fence...

I understand the lingo about custodial services the DNR supposedly provides, but if that were so, how was it that SEVERAL times I reported poachers (one whom stole my stand) down to license plates and vehicle descriptions, and nobody even INTERVIEWED me OR went after the perps? They did it for 14 YEARS.

How is it that the wildlife folks who are supposedly custodians of the public trust completely deny that they have Florida panthers, with radio collars or without, in North Florida, yet they told me that if I shot the three I saw there (two with and one without collar, different occasions), I would go to prison? If they aren't there, how could I shoot one there? And if they are not supposed to be there, why did they refuse to come out and take a peek BEFORE my stock is killed? Or perhaps AFTER would have been a better time? Well, I got neither.

They are there to do a job, that is for sure. How well they do it and how well they interact with US the TRUE custodians of this wildlife is a matter of conjecture and debate.

I once was a proponent of the concept that natural resources on public lands belonged to the public at large. I no longer can subscribe to or defend that notion as a reality, it is now a big business, and government is making money on it. They are telling us the game is ours, they are just "taking care of it for you."

I am positive however that we are not the owners of the wildlife, even in most cases that which is on our own lands. We need licenses and permits to hunt the animals, we have rules about when, where, and how, and we are not even notified when changes are coming in many cases until they are already decided and coming into (or already into) law form. Considering those things can get you arrested and your firearms, vehicles, and personal property auctioned off to the high bidder or even given to officers within the DNR ranks as personal items for THEM, I would say you don't own those animals any more than I do. And THAT is a travesty.

Posted By Bill Davis on 23 Dec 2010 12:51 PM

Posted By coyoteslayer on 21 Dec 2010 08:01 PM
heres a question I have run into a few times over the years,what do all of you think? hunter shoots deer,elk,etc and wounds it.It then runs across hunt boundary do you shoot it to put it out of its misery?I have been told this is illegal but I believe it is the hunters responsability to retrieve no matter the repercusions.what say you?

And in specific reply to this specific question (man, it is SO much easier if that shot had not been taken to BEGIN WITH) it is up to the person who launched the bullet, arrow, spear, whatever, to go to whomever has authority over that property(ies) and get permission from said landowner/entity to retrieve said game, BEFORE dispatching it. Yes, it is going to be miserable for the gut shot animal, but if you shot it that way, that's YOUR fault, and unfortunately, that is why you are supposed to be elsewhere shooting at game. You should have been a better custodian in the first place. The suffering of that animal is now squarely on the shooters bad judgement. Pure and simple. That is not your game animal now, yet you still are required by ethics to notify someone so that THEY can make decisions that fit their own ethics about that animal that belongs to THEM now. And before someone says the animals belong to everyone, take a look at what happens when someone shoots one out of season and the authorities find out about it (or if I do).

That is why I always wince before posting on these topics, because of the backlash I am going to get later, but that is also why I do it at each opportunity, because if there is heat headed my way, someone is at least going to THINK before they squeeze off a round in the direction of MY house again. Of course, it may also someday GENERATE one headed my way, but that is the price one pays for standing up I suppose. (They had better make the first one count though, I was well equipped before, I have more/better now..)

   I agree100  percent that you should make that first shot count. I would like to take a second and say I did not and have never wounded an animal and had it get away.every one I ever got was with one shot with the exception of one deer and one elk wich I had to take a second shot. that said, we all know if we hunt long enough there is the possability this may happen to us.I have been with hunting partners who did wound there animal and we had to spend the rest of the day ,and in one case two days,tracking the deer. so far we have always found  them in the end but it still makes the hunt kind of a bummer.this is the main reason I started this post.while we all have different views on ethics I think it is something all hunters need to consider.  o.k i'm getting of my soapbox now

Bill,
Agree to most all of what you have said..as it boils down to the original post..what to do...(depending on Laws that govern said situation) if legal by all means retrive "your" deer/ it's all a matter of your personal feelings and actions wether to inform the Landowner of your intent...none of us want to see a deer lay suffering from a poor (or deflected) shot...but as it implies to the law wether you feel it's ethical or not...if the laws says you must have permission to"hunt" then you must get that permission..even if you are not taking a hunting implement on to said property...most states use the term taking of wild game as a cover all for hunting..including retriving or recovering that game...I also understand you frustration with the operations of (or in your case the lack there of) the DNR/DEP/F&G, etc...Heck I work part time for the DEP here in CT and I get just as frustrated as the next guy..but I also have some insight as to why they do the things they do...most of the CO would be rather happy if all the had to do was to enforce the hunting/fishing and trapping laws, investigate the "strange sightings" ie lion, wolf, bobcat sashquash and so on...or even come to the site of a livestock kill...but because the law makers have tasked them with so much other crap to look into they really don't have the time to do so....it would be easy if we had enough COs to do the extra work adn all the other stuff but they/we don't so what the law maker's consider more pressing get the attention...I don't like it when they make up new rules in the middle of the game either...so I did something about it..it doesn't stop them form doing it but when they know a group or groups are watching them and following the proposals for changes they tend to be a bit more conservative in thier dession maling...join a group for legilative action/monetoring..where it concerns hunting, fishing and wildlife laws...

when i was a teen in alaska many many years ago my dad and i were hunting dall sheep i came across a yearling dall sheep with two  broken front legs they were gangreen .I asked my dad if we could put it out of his misery and he said if someone were tosee us do it we would be in trouble he said the lamb would be either winter kill or a eagle would take care of it. we moved along with our hunt ,but i sure wanted to finish the little guy off . I have a great hunting spot that boarders private property  and the land owner has been asked ahead of time for permission to recover any downed game and he has refused to allow this so i will no longer take an archery shot close to the property for that reason.he claims that fish and game would not be allowed to recover it either i don't know if thats true or not but i figure by the time fish and game showed up the meat could be spoiled so i choose to back off a bit so i don't need to make that called.

Some very interesting comments here. As a thought, if a landowner refused you the right to pick up game, what do they intend to do with it? If they let it rot, then they would have to deal with the smells and bugs and so forth (is that legal) and if they keep it for themselves, do they need some sort of permit (s) to do so. Lots I don't know about sort of thing.

Abranch, here in CT if the owner of the land says no he can not recover that game either unless he has the proper permit or a tag issued by the DEP...to so is illegal..just like a road kill the deer has to be tagged or permitted by the DEP..however the State and local police have what are called "deer strike" tags that they will give you when you report a road kill if you want the deer...you must remain with that deer until they arrive...and issue the tag...if you don't want it they call guys like me that are on thier call list to come and get it...

I'm sorry that I'm late to this dance; here in SC we can go wherever a wounded deer might take us in our retrieval efforts. We do not have to contact the landowner, the DNR, or seek peermission of any type, as long as the original wounding occured on land that we have the right to hunt on. If there is a blood trail, we can even put a tracking dog on the trail to assist in the recovery. We can also carry a weapon to finish the deer off, in case it is neccessary. Fortunately, such a situation doesn't occur very often, but it is nice to have game laws that protect the hunter's right to retrieve his game.
BTW, if a person kills a deer in an auto-deer collision, they can load the deer and take it with them.  We do not have to call any cops to the site, due to insurance regulations as well as SC Highway Dept. rules and regs.  The insurance companies will take the word of the body shops that there was indeed a collision with an animal(as long as there is visual evidence), if the auto owner wishes to file a claim with their insurance.  No accident report is needed in this case.

Check your local laws, In Missouri you are suppose to make ever attempt to retrieve your game, HOWEVER, you are not allowed to trespass or violate any laws in the process. If you are hunting on zoned areas and the animal runs across to a different zone after being shot, contact the dnr in that area and if nothing else see if they will go with you to retrieve it.

rt4, not only is that ability to retrieve nice, it's also nice that surrounding neighbors down in SC are aware of and honor that right. Here in NY I would probably not intentionally enter another man's property with a firearm unless he first granted permission. Guess I'm livin' in the wrong state. I do own a house in SC but have yet to go there.

in my opionion its the right thing to do but it isnt allowed i guess it to me depends on the situation if its 15 yards into there land then you know... but if it runs 3-400 yards in there and is still going then i think your better off leaving it.. also this is why you should know the land owners around you so this wouldnt be a problem and you could explain to them why your there and they might have a better understanding.and you can always just give them a quick call and tell them what happened and ask permission to track down and finish off the animal

Happened to a friend of mine last year. He shot the biggest buck that he had ever had the opportunity to take. Shooting deer with shot guns deer rarely drop on the spot. Anyway the buck ran on to a neighboring property and the land owner told him no. He could not enter his property to retrieve his deer. The next day although illegal he went to retrieve the deer anyway. When he found it 30 yards on the property it had been almost entirely consumed by yotes. He go the nice trophy rack. but the deer was wasted. What a shame.

Legally you cannot shoot across the property line without permission from the next landowner. Everywhere elk live there are predators and scavengers to finish the job. If you see it die, or know it will die, most states (not all) allow you to go unarmed to retrieve it. If you go to retrieve it and the landowner makes a stink, you call the peace officer or game warden, and have them go with you to retrieve it. None of us want to see an animal suffer, but the laws are there to keep you, the hunter, from being shot by the irate landowner, and to keep unethical shooters (I won't call them a hunter, as a true hunter is ethical) from poaching. Yes, I use real terms, I'm proud to not be politically correct!

I allow all my adjacent land owners to track wounded animals on my land, and they allow the same.

He shot it on land that he had permission to hunt. He even called the game warden. In Indiana if the land owner says no, then you cannot retieve it.

Same way here in Ohio rmathews.

Same rule in Mi. if they say no, you can't go get it, but they can't touch it either. It has to be left to rot, cause you can only legally tag it if you killed it. This regularly leads to cluster f$%Ks.

I think if you can put it down without possible harm to a person or property put it down if already wounded. Then contact the landowner to see if you can retrieve the animal. If they say no then at least the animal won't suffer.

Of course, these situations change dramatically if one takes the time to get to know the adjacent landowners long before the hunting season. A bit of simple traditional neighborliness can go a long way. Bring a gift and advertise your strong sense of responsibility and ethics and who knows, you may make a friend and even pick up some new hunting ground. In any case, you will no longer be a "stranger." My neighbor's lease hunters made the effort to come over and introduce themselves, a basic gesture that has allowed us to coordinate which stands will be in use on what days and improving safety and success for all concerned. Even my other neighbor, who doesn't allow hunting (creating a valuable sanctuary for the deer), understands the ethical commitment to recover a wounded animal.
As a lawyer friend says,"law comes in where civility fails."

In Wisconsin you are supposed to get the permission of the land owner before entering their property. Even to retrieve wounded game. A lot of hunters don't get permission. They just jump the fence and take their chances. This very incident happened to me. It was late Bow Season in December and it was COLD!! Normally I try to tag out before this part of the season hits, but I gave my first deer away to an old couple. So I was out there, ready to take buck or doe. I needed meat. I was hunting some excellent property but right next door was a person that HATED hunters. Well as luck would have it a doe came in. And I drew back the bow, but was not used to wearing so many clothes. When I released, the string hit my sleeve and flipped the shot. I saw the arrow hit and knew it was gut shot.

1 hour later I climbed out of the tree and started tracking. Blood was every where in the snow. I really thought I would find the deer very soon. But it ran right to the neighbor's fence line and crawled under his fence. So I went to the neighbors and knocked on the door. I explained I had wounded a doe, and I could see the veins on his neck already start to pop. I further explained that it went under his fence, so I suspected it on his property laying somewhere. I asked permission to get the deer. He then started giving me a lecture about hunters, and wounding, and so in. But I finally said, I was loosing day light. Either he could give me permission, I would get the deer, and take it off his property, or the next day, try and shoot another one. He then told me to get it. Which I did. Funny thing is, the deer went 30 yards onto his, made a loop and came back on to the property where I had been hunting. After I retrieved the deer I went back to his house, told him it had entered his property, but did a circle on me. So actually it was not on his property when I retrieved it. But I thanked him again for his kindness.

My point is, I followed the law. And even though the neighbor was a nasty old devil, I still reasoned with him, and got permission. Now I could have jumped the fence and did the track, but I knew that had this happened on my property, I would have liked to be contacted. So I extended the same consideration. Also later that winter I took him a stick of venison sausage I made. He was very pleased then. This old neighbor that never talks to anyone, even invited me in for a beer.