I know the shoulder shot is possible with calibers like the .30-06, .270, but my question is , "How small of a caliber can be used and still break clean through the shoulder ?"  I'm interested in actual field performance, if you or a friend has done this please reply. THANK YOU!

A 30-30 will definitely break the near shoulder. The far all depends on deflection.

-MD

I broke through both shoulders and two ribs with an arrow this season, a 30-30 isn't going to have a problem.

Why in hades half acre would you want to hit a deer in the shoulder?????????????????????? You'll lose meat and might just put him down and need a second shot to kill. Your best shot placement is just behing the front leg six inches below the spine. Just go to any store that sells deer targets for archery and look at the vitals area on the target this is the IDEAL spot for your shot. The only N American game a shoulder shot should be considered is Bison and Brown/Grizzly bear. If either of these animals get into thick brush tracking is a game of who sees who first and if either sees you first a broken shoulder may slow him down enough for you to pur several more shots into him and walk away alive. I know several AK guides who will tell you when shooting a big bear. As long as you can see him keep putting bullets into him.

I was always told that for black bear you should break the front shoulder for the same reasons gut. Some people I know try for an angled shot through the vitals and in to the far shoulder so they won't have to track deer very far. That is how I was instructed as a kid and have to say most of my hunts have ended like that. Lose some meat but on the positive side I have never had a deer move more than a step or so with a shot like that, also some feral hogs as well.

I know from under a 100 yards, the .30-30 with 170 gr bullets, will do it. Growing up, I was taught to aim behind the front shoulder, most of the time. If the deer was close to an obstacle that may impede recovery (river, thick cut over, property line), then we should try to take out the front shoulders. Yes, you might damage the front shoulders but you wouldn't loose the whole deer. This was before we knew of the 'high shoulder' shot.

The majority of deer I kill with a rifle are from neck shots at 100 yards or less. No meat loss, and dead before they hit the ground. As for shoulder shots, there isn't a lot of meat to be lost from a shoulder shot on a white tailed deer, in the first place, and even the blood shot meat can still be used in hamburger or sausage. A good shoulder shot will normally take out both lungs.

BTW, I normally shoot a .308, or  .270, and occasionally at long range (which isn't often) a .300wsm.

I've done it a lot with a 30 30. Never had any problems. I'm sure as small as a 243 will do good as well with the right load in it. How small of a caliber are you thinking about?

haven't thrown my 2C in a I'm in the same boat as RT. Only shot I've ever taken at a whitetail.

Have done both the shoulder shot and the behind the shoulder shot. If you do not want to look for the deer then the shoulder shot is the way to go. Have shot two deer delibertly in the shoulder. Both were dead before they hit the ground. There was alot of damage to meat. Not surprising one was with a 12 guage slug, the other was with a .300 win mag. I have been deer hunting for almost 40 years. Never even heard of the shoulder shot till about five years ago. Started to pay attention to the shots on deer on tv. Seemed that the ones shot in the shoulder went down where they stood. My father deer hunted in Pa. so we were taught broadside and behind the shoulder, as if our shot was off there should still be a dead deer.
Just my two cents
Joe

Controversial subject, could go many ways? With any high powered rifle, if you slow that lead down enough in the animal, here comes the shock wave of energy right behind it. I've shot deer right through the lungs with my 300 savage and it just left two little holes in and out. I've also shot deer with it in the shoulder and holy crap, devistation! I prefer my 12 guage. That big ole chunck of copper expanding outward does the job just fine regardless of where you hit, even past 100 yards. May not get the huge shock of eeeeenergy like a rifle, but they ain goin far.

Gutpile doesn't hunt in thick cover or public land apprently. Break it down or loose it if you don't in many places. I also process deer for the public and I can tell you unless you have a huge deer there isn't that much meat in a deer's shoulder. I seen deer shot with 223 to the huge mags and they all can break the shoulders.

I think it has more to do with round selection than caliber. The less it expands and faster the bullet the more penetration you're going to have, but less blood traill. The shoulder bone can serve as a "block" and leave little to follow, even if you put them down they can still use their very powerfull back legs that do most of their travelling anyway.  I've taken very few shoulder shots as I agree somewhat with Gut in that a shoulder shot will most likely require a second shot if you hit it in the wrong spot. I've actually shot one in the shoulder with a 444 and a 45-70 that literally just "bounced" around and completely missed all the vitals (one went out the throat and the other out of the same side it went in taking out both front legs) and both required followup shots. One was laying right where I shot it and couldn't get up and the other went about 50 yds. Had it not been light enough I probably would have never found her for the follow up shot. Some are worried about trailing through brush, trust me living in south MS will teach you all about that and I prefer a lung/heart shot with a heavy blood trail to a "drop 'em" shoulder shot where they may run 50 yds into the brush and die never to be found again, because I have almost nothing to follow in the dark. If you want to drop them for sure there really is no cure all shot, but a front on neck shot about 6" bellow the head is my preffered choice as RT somewhat suggested. I've attached a vitals image that may shed some light or start another debate, either way we'll have a lot of fun with it.



Also, some people are under the impression that just about 3" to the right of what I've put as "best place to aim" is where the shoulder bone is and as you see that isn't the case.

Thanks for the info. It was all academic. I usually aim for the boiler room myself, but a friend took his buck with the shoulder shot. The buck was literally dropped in his tracks. So, I was just thinking about a "you call the shots moment" and considered what if the hunter carried a "user friendly" rifle in .223 or .243. Could that hunter still attempt that shot? What if that was the only chance the hunter had to take that animal?
We all have seen situations where less than desirable opportunities have been the only opportunities. Sometimes we pass and the deer walks on. Sometimes not.
Thanks again.

teezr9.
Please tell me more about the 'high shoulder shot'. This one is new to me.
Thanks.

Lngsht27, Your question is why I don't favor using a .223 or a .243 for deer hunting, unless the shooter is a very accomplished shot. In my opinion a .243 is a beginner gun for shots of 50 yards or less. I know that many folks have killed plenty of deer with a .243, and never even considered a larger bullet, such as a .308, .270 or any thing similar. I consider those folks to be the type who spend countless hours at the range, know their gun's limitations, and are extremely accurate with bullet placement. I recently read an article that claimed that the same could be said for the .223, but I just don't agree with the assumption that anything even slightly marginal with a .223 will kill a deer. I have a good friend who consistently kills deer with a .17 by shooting them in the head, but I recognize that he spends hours practicing those shots.

If a shoulder shot is desired, make it low and avoid the shoulder blade, so that the result is a heart shot, or at the least, a double lung. The high shoulder shot is supposed to break the backbone, but as has been stated, that shoulder blade can deflect the bullet and result in a lost deer.

Posted By hillmp63 on 26 Dec 2012 12:43 PM
Gutpile doesn't hunt in thick cover or public land apprently. Break it down or loose it if you don't in many places. I also process deer for the public and I can tell you unless you have a huge deer there isn't that much meat in a deer's shoulder. I seen deer shot with 223 to the huge mags and they all can break the shoulders.

Umm... Don't you think that's just a little foolish to say? I would agree that under certain conditions you are correct, but in the outdoors we are faced with a myriad of conditions. To make such a broad statement is a bit irresponsible. Cartridge choice aside, don't you think that you should qualify such conditions as range, and bullet choice when making such a statement?

Under some conditions I would take a shoulder shot, but would not be flippant in my decision too do so, nor in advising anyone else too do so.

Around these parts, yes NY has some thick sheet too, the 30-30 is considered a "brush gun" for that very reason, thick brush. It is a heavy round that won't break down as quickly when fired through brush as the higher powered, smaller caliber rounds will. Hence, this is why I like my trusty 12 guage, it covers ALL avenues.

GLW, that's one reason, besides the safety issue, that we use 00 buckshot when hunting with the hounds down in the thick azz swamps, down here.

I've tapped the wealth of this membership's knowledge before and have yet to be disappointed. Thanks everyone.

Lngsht27, what we used to call a shoulder shot would be a little forward and a little higher than where BK has marked as the best spot. What I call the high shoulder shot or TV shot goes thru the shoulder blade, thru the backbone, dropping them in their tracks. I've seen the shot placement directions as follow the line of the front leg vertical towards hairline, then aim about 1/3 of the (top to bottom)distance, from the top.
Now, my instinct is to shoot right where BK indicates, but after having to drag a cpl does uphill thru 10 y/o clearcut, this year, I wish I had taken higher shots!

Well I'm not ashamed to say I am a shoulder shooter...and most deer I've taken save archery have been shoulder shots.....This said with one exception a unintentional pull on a bow shot...resulted in a 20yrd drop in her tracks doe kill...through both shoulders...I took my first rifle deer with a 243 60yrd shoulder shot.
he still managed a 50-60 yrds nose plow before dropping.

I hunt in steep hill country and in highly populated high density hunting area...I have had deer stolen on me ...dragged off guts still in them situations...so let me say dropping them in there tracks is a must...and it is usually done with a 3" Breneke 20ga mag and any where from 50-110 yrds...there is a bundle of nerves in the shoulder area that will drop a deer immediately...the fragments from the shattered shoulder even on a high hit will shred lung. Pics of the bow shot ...and other deer that would have gone to properties  I would not have been able to recover them from had the shoulder shot not dropped them

I shoot for the near shoulder when they're quartering toward me and the far shoulder when they're quartering away. I've used a 6.5 mm (.264 caliber) 140 gr. Nosler Partition bullet and broke shoulders on both sides. The bullet only has to hold together and the Partition does. The 6.5 X 55 Swedish can get the job done. I'm sure that with a quality bullet, the .243 and .223 can also. When a fast bullet hits bone going in, bone fragments are your friend.