30-06 neck problem
Last Post 01 Dec 2012 01:41 PM by Cherokee. 8 Replies.
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jsankUser is Offline

jsank Send Private Message Posts:22
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28 Oct 2012 07:12 PM

A buddy just started reloading and asked if I could come over and help him get started.  He is reloading 30-06, something I don't reload, and has lead bullets with a copper cap on the bottom.  When we re sized the rounds everything was fine untill we seated the round.  There is a gap between the bullet and the rim of the neck.  I was wondering if this is due to the copper cap on the bottom, and if a factory crimp die would resolve it?  We are trying to keep the chamber pressure down, and that's why I was trying to avoid crimping.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.

"Greater love hath no man, than to lay down his life for his friends"
ahoffman2User is Offline

ahoffman2 Send Private Message Posts:193
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28 Oct 2012 11:15 PM

The copper cap is a gas check. If properly installed, being as to how it is attached as the bullet is sized, will not have a larger diameter then the rest of the bullet. If the gap is very obvious, I personally would mic the bullet, just to satisfy my own couriosity, and if it miced out appr. .309, then yes, Id' run it to the die until it just bumped the crimping ring enuf to close that gap.
Allen

grandpopsUser is Offline

grandpops Send Private Message Posts:428
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29 Oct 2012 04:02 AM
Lead bullets in the 30.06? I would think the velocity is going to be too high and cause leading problems in the barrel.
As Ahoffman2 stated, the gas check should be the same size as the bullet, check the bullet diameter. Also for safety sakes, check your friends load data as it pertains to the use of un-jacketed lead bullets.
Fred, Cleburne, Tx. NRA Life Member, NAHC Life Member, DU, USN Vet, NRA Certified Instructor "A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and don't have one, you'll probably never need one again."
dk99300User is Offline

dk99300 Send Private Message Posts:264
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29 Oct 2012 10:19 AM
Don't bullets for use with a gascheck have a smaller diameter heel so that the finished gascheck/bullet is the proper diameter? I'd do some measuring, see if anything is out of whack.

IIRC, a gas checked bullet should be good to about 2000 fps or so, but don't hold me to that.

Dale
Anyone who thinks laughter is the best medicine has never had morphine
ahoffman2User is Offline

ahoffman2 Send Private Message Posts:193
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29 Oct 2012 02:23 PM

Yaaa grandpops, there are a few of us cheap, miserly types that shoot lead in guns that really need a good jacket bullet. I've been shootin' lead thru my .30-30s' .300Sav. and .30-40 for over 60 years I do have 8 differant bullet mould just for the .30s' and with the exception of the 130gr, that I use in my .30 carbine, all are gas checked.
When ya just like to shoot, weather it be a grey digger, deer or bear, ya try to use the cheapst method. Ya gotta realize, back in the '50s--'60s, a good quality jacketed bullet figured out a smidgen over 3 cents a piece. Lotta money for a youngster tryin to raise a family!
Indeed Dale, the base of a gas checked bullet does have a smaller base just for the purpose of crimping on the gas check, and when properly resized, the gas check are is the same dia. of the bullet body.
In my experments, I have found that I can load up to 2200fps, before I start noticeing any signs of heat distortion, on a gas checked bullet. However, once I exceeded 2200fps, the distortion rapidly got worse.
As heat starts to melt the lead(The distortinon I mentioned), the lead will become a vapor, as that vapor excapes down the barrel, it will again solidify, normaly on the lands between your rifleings. I assure you, it is not an easy job to get that lead out, once ya get it in there. Your best bet is to be carefull and do not exceed that magic number of 2200 fps, in my cases!
To this day, my wife and I still shoot primarly lead, and we do get a average of 4 deer a year. we do probably shoot well over 1500 rounds a year, just becaus we like to shoot!
Allen

rriddle3User is Offline

rriddle3 Send Private Message Posts:1
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29 Oct 2012 02:37 PM
hardcast lead is great in the 06, 308 i probably shoot 5-600 rounds a year if you havent done it already slug your rifle and mic it, even within the same rifle you can have varying diameters, one of my 308 measures .3075 just under .308 so a 308 diameter cast works well the other measures .3085 so i use a .309 cast, also depending on your die, specifically rcbs you can get different size neck expanders. mic the expander you can order expanders either larger or smaller, i have seen some as large as .310, as far as crimping the lee die cant be beat, i do see velocities remain constant in strings when using it as.
"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." -Thomas Jefferson
jsankUser is Offline

jsank Send Private Message Posts:22
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29 Oct 2012 04:48 PM
Thank you gentlemen for all of the advice. My buddy wants to shoot lead cause it's cheap for just plinking around. He knew he had to have the gas cap keep the lead together. He wants to hand load becuase of the velocity is lower and he doens't want to add a gas vent on the original M-1 Garrand. I have the books to make sure the load data was correct, but I didn't know about the cap or smaller base diameter. Thanks again to everyone.
"Greater love hath no man, than to lay down his life for his friends"
finepointUser is Offline

finepoint Send Private Message Posts:131
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12 Nov 2012 10:32 AM
Gas checks are pretty much required for velocities over 1400 FPS. Your dies are probably flaring the case mouth slightly to ensure you do not shave the lead bullet during seating. Lyman "M" dies do this as a matter of course. As long as the ammo chambers properly, it really doesn't matter. You can iron this out with the judicious application of a Lee factory crimp die. An actual crimp is not necessary on cast bullet loads in rifles. It will not effect pressures significantly.
Lead bullets can be problematic in gas operated weapons with lead fouling of the gas port. Just a problem to be aware of.
First Law of Heredity: You can't get out of your genes in a hurry, even when you really want to.
CherokeeUser is Offline

Cherokee Send Private Message Posts:119
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01 Dec 2012 01:41 PM
Posted By finepoint on 12 Nov 2012 11:32 AM
Gas checks are pretty much required for velocities over 1400 FPS. Your dies are probably flaring the case mouth slightly to ensure you do not shave the lead bullet during seating. Lyman "M" dies do this as a matter of course. As long as the ammo chambers properly, it really doesn't matter. You can iron this out with the judicious application of a Lee factory crimp die. An actual crimp is not necessary on cast bullet loads in rifles. It will not effect pressures significantly.
Lead bullets can be problematic in gas operated weapons with lead fouling of the gas port. Just a problem to be aware of.
      LEE ALSO MAKES A CASE FLAIRING TOOL FOR MORE THAN 1 CAL,, AND IT COST'S ABOUT $15.00.. AND A FACTORY CRIMP DIE IS RECKAMENDED FOR ALL LOADS!!!! IF YOU WANT THE LOAD TO PREFORM THE SAME EVERYTIME WITH THE SAME POWER AND BULLETS.. SO , IF YOU WANT GOOD LOADS OR GREAT LOADS IS ALL UP TO YOU.. SO THINK ABOUT IT ..AND I HAVE BEEN LOADING AMMO FOR MORE THAN 30YRS AT HOME AND 15YRS IN THE USMC WHEN , I WAS A SNIPER.. SO , I DO KNOW ABOUT THE PREFORMANCE OF THE ROUND .. USE A FACTORY CRIMP ON ALL OF YOUR LOADS..AND DONT FLAR THE CASE MOUTH A LOT JUST A LITTLE BIT..



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