I know I am bound to step on more than a few toes with this post, but here it goes. In the area around where I live and hunt, where the average shot at a deer is 100yds or less, I can't for the life of me understand why SOOO many "hunters", and I use that term loosely, feel that they just absolutely have to have one of the "super calibers" to hunt with. Such as 7mm Mag, 300 WinMag, etc. I admit they have their place, but in places where a .30-06 or .270 could even be considered on the extreme side, what I mean is, where a .30-30 is ample firepower, I use a .308Win my self, the "super calibers", are bordering on unsafe for other hunters. This is just my opinion, and one of my pet peeves.

 

There are several on here that agree with you .I use a 30 06 because where I hunt 300 and 400 yard shots come along .And do they use these on other hunts .

I'm a hunters safety instructor and when we annually look over the state's list of hunting shooting accidents it always comes down to people taking reckless or just plain stupid shots, not the caliber.  Any caliber can be safe or dangerous.  It all depends on the nut behind the trigger.  It's all about making sure you have a safe line of sight with a backstop which doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the caliber.  I'm sure at least some of those hunters also hunt in areas or other states where they'll shoot longer range or like a few of my friends that do more shooting at the range than hunting just to see how small of groups they can get at extended ranges.  In either case I wouldn't expect them to buy a different rifle when they're hunting in an area where the shots are guaranteed to be close.  And if they're not guaranteed to be close, I'm going to bring enough gun to cover the possibilities.  I spent the summer making sure I could make any shot out to 300yds with my muzzleloader.  Yes, 300yd with a muzzleloader; it's a whole different post and I won't be offended, maybe even more proud of it if you call me a liar that my best 5-shot group at that range was 3-3/4" and 4 of the 5 shots measured 1-5/8".  It's not your average muzzleloader either.  I knew a 300yd shot would be possible but not probable in the area I was to be hunting.  Last week I filled that tag with an 80yd shot.  But when I go, I'll always make sure I'm prepared for all possibilities.  I'm with you that I can't stand the reckless ones no matter what caiber they're using and I wont hunt during Iowa's shotgun season because of the few bad seeds that recklessly blaze away.  In that case, maybe it is about caliber.  They don't scare me during archery season.  ???

Good luck, stay safe and wear plenty of orange

Canyonman

Luck is preparation meets opportunity

don357 - no stepping on toes. After all, this is America and you are entitled to your opinion. I for one happen to agree with you. Kind of like taking a 10 gauge to hunt quail! To play devil's advocate though, perhaps a person has tight funds (or even no money) but loves to hunt. Maybe even needs the meat to help survive. Is it possible that one would purchase one gun for ALL applications? I own a Remington 770 300 Win Mag. Cheap - new is $300 - but surprisingly accurate. Can take down just about anything but I use a 7mm 08 for deer - wouldn't dream of using a 300 WIN. That said, if it were the only gun I owned, I most likely would use it.

Just a thought......

My wife and I used to go on vacation to Alaska every two years. And I was putting money aside with the idea of treating myself to a moose hunt. So I bought a Ruger M77 Mk II in 7mm Rem Mag. Then I had my accident end of the dream. I have three rifles in my gun cabinet a muzzleloader, a 223, and the Ruger. OK got a couple of 22lrs. Last year the area I hunt was opened up to centerfire rifles. So I'm going with the Ruger. In places I hunt 70yds would be a long shot others 1,000yds would be possible. So you want me to leave it collecting dust in the gun cabinet? I think not. But before I shoot I know what's behind the target. I'd never shoot from my primary stand downhill there's a road down there about a thousand yds even though the woods is pretty thick there's a one in a billion chance a stray could make it to the road I'm not doin it. My 223 can reach out and touch someone at over 300yds so can any of the calibers mentioned here. Most will dump most of their energy passing through a deer. Of all the guns used for deer hunting the most lethal within 100 yds is a 12ga firing 1oz pumpkin balls.

Most "hunting accidents" take place at ranges UNDER 70yds. And most involve a hunter shooting someone in his hunting party. A lot of them father son shootings. When we are hunting we KNOW where the rest of our party is and we have radios to confirm position. We talk in code because everybody has radios. Like the turtle pond which is a spot on one of the logging roads where the skidder got stuck years ago and left a three foot deep fifty foot long hole that's always full of water.

Excellent points being raised for the 1 gun - large caliber side of things. Some of which I hadn't considered, the main one being the monetary one. I just always think back to a deer in Maine that a guy took with a 300 Wbthy mag and d*mn near blew the front half of the critter off...

canyonman: Your ML happen to be a Savage 10ML-II ? It's capable of 300 yards without even trying.

There's no getting around it that a light handy Winchester or Marlin lever is a great woods rifle. But that's only if you hunt that type of terrain year in and year out. If you have the urge to go west or to Canada for moose someday, those guns just won't cut it.
I have those guns and hunt in woods type settings, but for some reason I'll grab my 700 in .30/06 eight out of ten times. I guess it boils down to confidence. I know when I put the Leupold on a deer, it's over. I always aim for the lungs no matter what I'm carrying, so there is minimal meat loss every time. A couple of my friends are shoulder shooters thinking that a good hit there will minimize the amount of travel a deer makes after being hit. Your right in that they loose a lot of meat but that's their shot, their choice.
When I go moose/elk hunting I'll take my .338WM with the '06 as back up if possible.

My go to rifle for hunting is my Swede Mauser M96 in 6.5X55MM and it will take any of the game in North America with the right bullet and shot placement. 85% of the Moose killed each year in Sweden are killed using this caliber. It is the most accurate riflle I have ever owned or shot. It has been sporterized by Kimber America after being imported by a company name of Jumbo Sports. I researched the rifle after getting it in a trade and traced it back to Kimber America and actually spoke with a feller name of George who told me about the sporterizing that was done by them. I alos own aYugo M48 Mauser that I built from an 8MM to a .300 Win Mag and it is a great shooter too. I then also own a .308 and have never owned a 30-06 in my life. I also have a NEF Handi-Rifle chambered originally in 45/70 which I sent back to them and had a .44 mag barrel fitted to match my .44 mag handgun. With these firearms I can hunt any animal that walks this earth. I use each one according to the terrain i wil be hunting and the 6.5X55MM fits the bill for just about everything but the others cover anything else should the need arise. Use what you want or have and you will be successful as long as you always follow the rule of practice, practice, practice, and then when you think you have it down practice some more as bullet placement is the most important when it comes to hunting successfully. A well placed .22LR will kill any game animal so anything bigger will surely do the job as long as the shooter does his.

I hunt deer in Macon Co Missouri and the shot opps are endless but I have a self apposed 300 yard limit I hunt with the gun that fits the stand site I plan to hunt. I use a .44 mag Marlin a 444 marlin a 7mm mag 700 a .358 win savage a and a 300 WSM Tika. it depends on what I fell I will need and the deer up there are big body animals even the does can run quite large I never feel over gunned and am glad I have so many choices. And if the shot is not one I feel is safe or I can make every time i will not shot and will look for a new opportunity. Last year I killed a Hugh bodied buck with the 300WSM and I am glad I had enough gun I take shots that will minimize meat damage neck or heart lung shots only. I reload and use premium bullets I do not shot at deer on the horizon or any that are where I don't no what is beyond the deer once you drop the hammer you can never call the shot back you can't let antlers turn you in to a unsafe hunter

Me and Quailman use spotlights and night vision with a .22-250.....

Variety! I love to use different guns depending on moods. I have a "go-to" gun of course but on a whim I might choose more or less power. I am currently involved in a 91/30 Mosin-Nagant alteration to be a new knock-arounder and that has more power than where I will typically hunt with it shere shots will be 50 yds or so. But heck, I might get a shot someplace at the 200 yd range and like to have that availability. I admith to being unable or plain unwilling to be involved in a completely monogamous relationship with my hunting guns. it is a weakness in my character I admittedly am ashamed of.  But, you really cant get over the thrill of having a little "strange" in your hunting gun relationship - so long as your true-love never finds out.

I had the same idea when I put together my two most important rifles, my big-game rifle and my muzzleloader.  Do it once and do it right.  And I love them both.  I don't consider the .270WSM a "super caliber" but my thought when choosing a rifle, caliber and bullet combination is narrow your search to the caliber/bullet (it's not just the caliber) combos that will kill the intended game if the bullet is placed properly, then narrow it to the rifle model, caliber, bullet and scope combo that will make it easiest to place the bullet in the right spot.  Bottom line: I hope to hunt many places but they will all be with the same rifle.

Steve,  I do like the Savage ML's but when I considered switching to Savage or improving my Knight, Savage didn't make them in stainless.  Mine is a stainless Knight Disc Extreme.  I've had the bore lapped with poured lead slugs (which was actually very reasonable $40 I think), had it pillar and glass bedded into a laminate thumbhole stock and installed a second mounting screw.  Sounds like a lot for a muzzleloader but I loved the gun and had no desire for anything different.  Now the bullets push smoothly down the bore and it cleans easier too.

Canyonman

Wring the life out of every day

Love to caress all my guns my wife thinks its unhealthy but I am addicted to the feel of a good gun

Posted By healey on 24 Oct 2012 10:20 PM
Love to caress all my guns my wife thinks its unhealthy but I am addicted to the feel of a good gun

My gf is the same way.  I try to explain the feel of the antique wood work ( 1891 and 1893 Mausers ) or the appreciation of quality workmanship and her eyes roll up and she tries to change the subject.  I asked her if she would rather another woman or a rifle keep me awake at night when she is not there so she finally gave in and said it was fine to "maintain" the ancient things.

It's always nice when you have "that" gun in your hands when you say; "I can make that shot !"

Caliber is secondary !!!

I think we are the only people in the whole world that are in our right minds whats not to love about the feel of cold steal and good wood. I bought a Rem 870 special perp. once and she said it was ugly I was offended and ended up on the couch but I did sleep with the gun so it worked out in the long run

I'm glad someone else has posted a pet peeve. It's what I was hoping for when I posted mine. The opinions and arguements are fascinating, and I hope we all are grown up enough that no one gets angry about it. Passionate is OK.

My view on this one is mixed. I agree that you do not need the most powerful rifle you can find or control. Like many of us I started with a 30-30. I still have it even though I rarely use it. It works well. But I live in a place where the shots can vary from just under your nose to just under the horizon and I got tired of not shooting because I did not trust myself at that range.
But gradually my focus shifted and I started buying rifles for another reason. First, always, they must be a good choice for the animals and ranges I expect to be hunting. But then I just like to have something a bit different from the other hunters around here. No one I know around here has a 338-06 (my go-to gun), a 30-378 Wby (if I am going to set up to watch field or large hay meadow) or a 450 Marlin (sneaking through the bush gun). I know it's not necessary, but it's fun. And it's another reason (as if I needed it) to handload!

Yep, it all depends on "Your" circumstances. What works for someone else is not important, interesting input, but not important.  As I've said forever; if everyone liked/did the same thing the world would be an awfully boring place.

I, like has been said in here started with my first deer rifle being a 30-30, which I got for my fifteenth birthday, loved that gun. Joind the Military while I was gone it came up mising. After I got out just didn't hunt for a few years. When the interest returned bought a Rem 700 in .243, have had it for over 30 years now and killed alota deer and other creeters with it in that time. Ive been useing a .308 for awhile now, and actually lost a deer a few years ago using it, first I ever had get up and run off. Did notice some bullets zip right through, with little mushrooming. Never had that problem with the .243, or 30 -30. I have another 30-30 and I may use it this year when gun season opens, out of my bow blind. Just as a suprise to those deer, who have stayed just out of bow range or just behind a little brush. Not enough brush that you can not see the whole deer, but just enough you know an arrow might hit a twig and cause a bad shot. 30-30 don't care about twigs.

ckell
!!! NEWS FLASH !!! Just in, Hot off the press. The bullets from a 30-30 and any other bullet do care about twigs and brush. Even a single weed stem or twig can cause the bullet to deflect. The 30-30 is not the brush buster a lot of folks claim it to be.

Bursh busters are a myth

Yep any bullet or caliber is subject to deflection when it comes to brush or twigs. No such firearm as a " brush buster " that will not deflect if it hits something in between your target and you. As noted this is nothing more than a hunting campfire myth !

I stand corrected, but a 30-30 is a good short range gun, and I personelly can thread the needle with a bullet a little better than an arrow. Smaller object with just a little more pin point accuracy less chance of hitting a twig, with maybe a little less deflection, if it hits one just few inchs or so from impact with the deer. I try never to shoot through any amount of brush brush with any thing. and for sure never if I can not see the whole animal or what is beyond. Yep, Broom weed will defect a bullet just a little, had that problem sighting in once, have had a broom weed just before the target that was not in focus in the scope, but could be clearly seen where the bullets just touched it, moved the weed gun on.

Used a Rem 742 Woodmaster in -06 for years with the false understanding it could brush a bus and keep on ticking.....

Don, I'm actually in your camp on this one. I think the people who take howitzers out for 200 lb whitetail at < 100 yards, et. al. are people who just like to say "well, I shoot a xxxxxx" (Fill in the xxxxx with whatever)

I think they think it makes them look like they're macho or something. I personally think it makes 'em look ridiculous. Now if you're going buffalo or elephant hunting or something like that, different story.

I think it's more of a macho thing than one of what's required.

To each his own and there in lies the division in are ranks use want you want we have freedom of choice

It's funny when you hear people talk about how powerful those magnums are, and how far they'll shoot, but at one time there are charts of extreme teminal ballistics. To my suprise, the old 30 of 06 with a 180gr. bullet flew the farthest even outdoing the 7mm rem mag. Makes sense though, as a ton of research went into that round. I believe folks should hunt with what feels good to them, and I'm glad they do as one day I might want to buy one and if the manufactures aren't selling them, they might stop making them and the price would be very high. I'm glad I'm not the only one who needs the gun fix, caressing old betsy is pretty good stuff

exactly its a personal choice and we have that freedom I like to hunt with the stuff others don't hunt with no you don't need a 300 but who cares just be safe and everything will be okay

What? You mean my .300 WM isn't a proper squirrel gun? Next thing you will be telling my me .44-40 aint fit for bumble bees either!

Posted By SteelCandy on 27 Oct 2012 12:42 AM
What? You mean my .300 WM isn't a proper squirrel gun? Next thing you will be telling my me .44-40 aint fit for bumble bees either!

It is an excelant choice, if you don't like skinning and cleaning em, just pick up the peices you can find and throw em in the pot, with tators, onions, and carrots.
.22 might be a little cheeper for target practice, on bubble bees, but to each his own.

30-30 Test Trying to post pictures. I set up a target, at 50 yards, in front of it at approx 5 feet, a lot more brush in than I would ever even think about shooting any thing though. Did four test shots.

Could just see the red lines on the target, and make out a little of each diamond square.
 
The fourth shot I really got what I was after. The bullet hit Three small branchs about a 1/2 inch dia. was aiming at the right corner of the 2 inch diamond hopeing to hit at least one branch. The bullet did key as did the others, after hiting the branchs, but still hitting in the kill zones, around the diamonds I was aiming at.
 
Is the brush gun a myth? maybe, but not in this test. This was just laying the gun on a four wheeler seat, sitting on the ground, as might be done out in the field deer hunting. The bullets may have been defected some by the branchs, not haveing a real solid rest could have caused some of set in the bullet placement, but still got kill shots.

The target was on a back stop 4x8 sheet of plywood, in front of a burm approx 8 feet tall, curveing around the back stop, approx 10 feet on each side, so the bullet had little chance of getting away.

i hunt mainly with my savage model 111 in 7mm rem mag and a browning a-bolt in .300wsm, but wen long shots arnt required ill take out my savage edge in 7mm-08 or the trusty ruger .270. i have many other calibers but these are my 4 most trusted firearms.

I simply love guns. I own several different brands and calibers from .220 swift to .300wsm, but actually do not own a .30-30. I like hunting deer with different rifles based on the different tree stand, tower blind, or shooting house I'll be hunting out of.........since the distances can range from 30 feet to 500 yards (although I won't take a shot much over 200 yards). To my way of thinking it's more a situation of what the hunter is comfortable with shooting and his ability to kill what he shoots at. So, if a guy wants to use a .17hmr, or a .458 Lott to kill white tail deer at 50 yards, it's his own business.

Do not own a 30-30!!!!!!! Well, I will forgive you. Especially since I have not had mine out for some years now.

However, IMO if you shoot a deer with a .17 HMR you had better be able to put it in the ear 10 of 10 tries.
On the other end a .458 Lott will certainly put anything on this continent down. But if you want overkill, try a .577 Tyranosaur. I want one some day. Do I need one? No. But do I need to need one?

haha i hear ya

Of course I was exaggerating with the range of calibers; but I do have a friend who is the wildlife manager for a plantation down near Beaufort, SC. He consistently kills about 20-25 does every year with a .17hmr, and all of them are shot in the head. Of course, he's a hell of a lot better shot than I am, and his old Savage is very accurate (plus they are easier to hit at night and with a spotlight), but it's legal with the depredation permits.

I'm a firm believer in 1 shot, 1 kill. It goes along with a religuos respect for safety to anyone else that may be in the woods when you are. I've always used my Ruger .280 for shots ranging from 25-150 yards with great results. (Not bragging here, 1 shot, 1 kill.) The main thing that is in my mind before I pull the trigger is, even though I have a perfect shot, what is on the other side of that gamepiece? Once I process that it is clear, I send it down range. I own 30-30's, 7 mm mag, and even an AR 15 in 5.56. Hip cannons are another list that I won't go into. Discussed useing the AR or 7 mm next year with my buddies, but when all was said and done, it was me that made the decision that I would stick with the Ruger cause the last thing I want to do is take too much gun and destroy a good set of meals, or too little gun and mame a gampiece and/or loose it all together. The main thing is keeping your head straight and applying gun/caliber to your hunting terrain and situation so you can bring home a meal and no other lives are jepordized in the process. JMTC

Don, you are exactly right. I have hunted deer for 20 yrs now, and a 30-30 is the only rifle I ever owned up until last July. I always hunted in places where I never shot more than 100 yds, and 90% of the deer I killed got their feet knocked out from under them. BUT..... I wanted a Winchester model 70 in 30-06, and was finally able to pick one up last year. I love this rifle. Did I need it? No. I wanted it. I want a lot more but just can't afford more guns right now. The 06 is more versatile. I want to go Elk hunting one day. 30-06 is perfect for that or anything else I want to hunt. But like I said, you're right. I have a friend who bought a 7mm mag specifically to hunt whitetails. Said he was tired of them things running off from him. 

Not much difference in the 280 or the 7mag both .284 caliber's I have killed more deer with the 7mag than any other caliber I hunt with and if you shoot them in the right place the meat loss is kept to a minimum . always no what is beyond your target basic safety is a must

i agree healey know your target beyond , thats the most important thing to remember no matter what caliber your shooting

Well I am one of those guys.
I own two rifles. I inherieted a Marlin 336 lever action in Remington .35.Have had it for 15 years. Never fired more than a box thru it.
My son and I decided to go to South Carolina where you can rifle hunt during the rut. He thinks that someday he will hunt big bears somewhere. Me I doubt it but woulld like to shoot at something say 300 - 400 yards away. We looked around and read all that we could find. We decided on Browning A-Bolts chambered in .300 Win Mag. I learned how to reload and reload 180 grain Nosler Balistic Tips.Oh we topped with Burris Illimater scopes(built in range finders) Have killed two deer down there one at 102 yards and one at 40. Both were dead with one shot, one had the heart blown apart at 102 yards. and the other I shoulder shot at 40 yard. (will not do that again). I love the feel of my dads .35 But If I take it to stand and the deer .of my life is 300 yards away, I would have to let it walk.When You are gonna spend $1800.00 for a scope and a gun I want to use it for more than one animal. I can drop down to 150 grain for Pronghorns or go up to 220 grains for big bears or 180 or 200 for elk.
As far as RECOIL We use a lead sled at the range and have fired close to a hundred shots in a day.
Joe Termite

Joe When I lived in Colorado I never used anything over 150 grs.for deer and elk .Farthest deer was 300 yards and the farthest elk was 350 both went don with one shot .Oh I shoot a 30 06 at that .The last two elk were at 200 yards .