NAHC is a company first and a club second. I work in the construction trade where contracts and scope of work (Same as Terms of service) are vital to doing business in this era of lawsuits. I am a life member and rarely post to any of the boards unless I have a question that is beyond anything I have experience with. I do have a problem with member complaints being deleted. Complaints about service should always be avaiable to all members for them to decide if they themselves are having the same problem. I paid for this service for a lifetime, and as it seems older members get left behind to fund newer members and there payments. Just my opinion. Jerry S.

Jerry, I see plenty of member complaints everytime I come to the forum. I wasn't aware of any being deleted though (not since the new format anyway).

What has been deleted lately that you are aware of? I noticed someone a few months ago with this same complaint and turns out his post was just moved down the posting list over time because no one had responded to him.

the main problem I have with the club is that they always have articles and tv shows about hunting on big ranches or with outfitters. I ,as a former working man, can't afford to go to these places to hunt especially now that I am retired. hell Obama didn't even give me a raise this year and not again next year. I think that they should have a contest where you can go on a hunt with them all expenses paid, and have one for all different animals, you pick which one you would like to try for. then if you are successful you can't enter again for a specified number of years. I think that this should only be for life or trophy members though. we put up the money we should get something besides a preview of a new knife or a gaudy jacket. or at least have stuff that shows real hunts where they have to scout the terrain and find a good place to hunt like the rest of us. I also almost puked when Weishun complained about how hard he had it having to go to all these places to hunt for free. actually on our dime. I would love to go moose hunting in alaska or elk hunting in montana but I can't afford it. I am just a regular former factory worker.

myjazzie, That was similar to the concept of the club when it was first started by the Burkes. Unfortunately, all of the money paid by the members only goes to pay for the businessmen who run the organization to go hunting. The life member hunts are so overpriced, that most of us, who are like you and on fixed incomes will never be able to afford any of these hunts. Hell, I can't afford to purchase any of the cheap Chinese junk they send out for preview, much less 5 or 6 thousand for a hunt.

I have no knowledge of any postings being deleted. I was just responding to the updated terms of service list of not allowed items. Then again if forums are moderated, the post or complaint will never reach the forums, and we as members have no voice. Jerry Scrimager.

10 Feb 2010 09:12 AM

Alert

In a continuing effort to improve the North American Hunting Club forums, we have updated our Terms of Service. Please take a moment to review it. Effective immediately we will be moderating the forums and removing posts that contain:   - Offensive or derogatory language - Harassment or abuse of others - Membership complaints ************** - Copyright infringement - Unauthorized advertising or spam … or otherwise conflict with our Terms of Service.

Posted By rthomas4 on 04 Nov 2010 09:40 AM
myjazzie, That was similar to the concept of the club when it was first started by the Burkes. Unfortunately, all of the money paid by the members only goes to pay for the businessmen who run the organization to go hunting. The life member hunts are so overpriced, that most of us, who are like you and on fixed incomes will never be able to afford any of these hunts. Hell, I can't afford to purchase any of the cheap Chinese junk they send out for preview, much less 5 or 6 thousand for a hunt.

At 5-6 grand for a hunt, there better be human man on woman sex included! LOL I can do 50-60 or more local hunts on that amount of cash. That's good for at least 7-10 years hunting expenses.

DO not say how i feel about some things because i dont want to be suspended or deleted . Seen to many good guys get it for speaking thier mind And some that did not need to get suspended . SOME HERE KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT

If anyone gets suspended or their posting gets deleted then I feel they should get a refund of the money they spent for their membership. and I mean ALL of their money. I thought forums were for the purpose of people expressing their opinions. after all don't we live in the country where I fought for the right to speak your mind?????? If they want to have people happy and not complaining then perhaps they should listen to the people, and not do like the democrats did and think they know better. the way I look at it, I didn't put up the money for some other guy to go to exotic places and say look at me having the hunt that you can only dream about. If they can send these few people all over the place why can't they take the money they spend for these hunts, which is probably free just to put the outfitters name on the show, and let some of us experience it.

Been said be for

When a member is suspended from the forums, he still gets the mag, and is still considered a member in "good standing", he just can't post on the board, until the suspension is over.
Deletions are just that, deletions; and there isn't anything one can do, except re-post and try to re- word it so that it doesn't get deleted. Remember, this is a coporation run by a mangement group, the title of the corp. just happens to be the NAHC, and we "members" are just paying customers, with no say, no input, and no benefits other than the magazine and the boards.

Way back in the mid-70's when the NAHC was organized, it truly was a club, and the Burkes actually appreciated our input and advise on things we wanted to see, and do.  That has long been gone.

Posted By Jscrimager on 04 Nov 2010 05:34 PM

I have no knowledge of any postings being deleted. I was just responding to the updated terms of service list of not allowed items. Then again if forums are moderated, the post or complaint will never reach the forums, and we as members have no voice. Jerry Scrimager.

10 Feb 2010 09:12 AM

Alert

In a continuing effort to improve the North American Hunting Club forums, we have updated our Terms of Service. Please take a moment to review it. Effective immediately we will be moderating the forums and removing posts that contain:   - Offensive or derogatory language - Harassment or abuse of others - Membership complaints ************** - Copyright infringement - Unauthorized advertising or spam … or otherwise conflict with our Terms of Service.

Wait a minute webbie!! You listed these updates in membership that will be effective "IMMEDIATELY" and I steer to one specific update. ............-Membership Complaints***************........... You obviousely haven't taken a look in the past year and addressed this exact topic. I can guarantee you that you (The administrators) can and will never address or stop the complaints from being posted. Simply because the topic in itself is a double standard that "The club offers and has put into place as A MEMBERS RIGHT, simply because you (The administrators) have created the forums for the members to express those rights. The complaints are plastered all over numberous forums as to the lack of  "Support" on behalf of "THE CLUB".  (Again, that's you guys, the administrators.) Granted that there are alot of (Newer) members out there that obviousely joined for the wrong reasons, ( And I'll give you that one, as I and other members are sick of reading their "Complaints") "The Club" has, and probably will not do much of anything to cure the overwhelming amount of complaints that we, the members, will come across as we try to enjoy the simplicity of just trying to "Talk hunting" on the forums. You need to update your update and recind that far-fetched statement that "Membership Complaints will be removed".. The new "Terms Of Service" guidelines are writing checks that the administrators will never be able to cash. This is just my honest input.  

Good post Sarge!!!

After reading these post, I have to agree. I have been a life member for a lot of years. When I joined, I joined as a life member. Sometimes I find myself wondering why I did. Everyone is right. This is not a club, it is a for profit corporation. Recently, I received a package wanting me to upgraded my membership. Their recruiting method is that if I had upgraded I would receive testing products more often and of more value. Needless to say, they had me thinking about it, but in the end the material found the circular file. I have to say that I have received items to test, some good and some not.

I too received books, one phone call and that stopped. What I receive now, are offers to purchase different items. It each of us to report any problem that occurs, on-line and off-line.
+

the thing that gets me is that they lure you in to upgrading to life member then trophy member saying that you will get "exclusive" life or trophy member things like forums etc.. but when you upgrade you find that everyone has the same things. Like I upgraded to trophy member so that I could " have a say in how the club is run and changes for the future of the club." But all I find in that tab is the review of the articles in the magazine. How does that affect how the club is run and affect the future of the club. Also, where is the exclusive trophy members only rooms and forums. I can't seem to find them?

myjazzie, the upgrade to trophy member benefits that you get above and beyond the other levels of membership is that you get a whole new package of empty promises, and alot more nothing than you did before to be content with. LUCKY YOU! I don't care what level membership the folks care to be at, all one really gets out of this (Club) is the initial trinkets, the mags, and the use of this BB, which is good enough for me. The club could and will never give me what I expected when I joined. It's the members that give me what the club boasts they have to offer. That is the unending volumes of knowledge from every member that contributes and believes in the commodery of us hunters. If I were to take 1 dollar and send it to every member that stands behind this support and strength in hunting, I would have well exceeded the full dues of multiple life memberships already. And I have only been a member for just over 1 year. You want expert knowledge in hunting? This (BB) is the place to be. You want trinkets? I can't and the "CLUB" won't help you there. Give it time and you will see what I mean as you surf through the forums. Take care, have fun.

I agree with your that it is unjust to remove the right of members to complain in the forums.  This however does not prevent you from writing letters to the staff directly. The arbitrary removal of member complaints without member input is totally uncalled for in my opinion!  In a true club members have a voice in the matters of their club, how it is organized, and how it conducts business.  The "NAHC" is not a club as you have suggested, it is a corporation.  In any forum there should be rules but to gag the voice of the "club's" members because it does not like what it is hearing is totally uncalled for. It would go a long way if managment would redefine actually what they mean by no complaints!  It seems to me that perhaps c"club" management does not want non-members reading about our concerns.  After-all  they may not joining the club and thus reduce the cash flow to the administrators for their hunts.

Many of us feel that non-members shouldn't be allowed to read any of the forums in the first place! That would defintely eliminate the Corporations concerns over drafting new suckers, err, I mean members!

I have a problem that I'm hoping SOMEONE can help me out with.I joined this club -- company as I''ve heard it refered to for the fun of it.I mean it really does feed the big kid in me in alot of ways.Since my retirement I HUNT...alot.
            When  I first joined I was promised a set of skinning knives as a PERK FOR JOINING.This was several months ago now mind you.....
        I went for the two year agreement...I've been aware of this clubs existance for some years and thought I'd be great to finally get involved.I enjoy the magazine,entering the contests....yet to win anything but I keep plugging......all in all it's just fun to be a part of.YET....there's that skinning knife thing that keeps haunting me.....as petty as it may seem....and where's some sort of customer relations?Something?Sadder yet....my wife feels  life member is the way to go.As I said.It's fun being involved and would as soon just pay the fee all up front  rather than steatch it out,but how can I trust these people to make good their agreement on a life membership when I'm being forgotten about (my knives) on a two year membership.
      Can anyone give up some feed back that could be constructive?It would be deeply appreciated

You can not depend on the company for anything, except that your magazines will come on time ( unless you have a mailman like mine), and access to the site. The true benefit of paying the company fee, is the enjoyment of the board, and the forums!

I have been a Life Member since 10/1989 and received my NAHC leather coat and everything that was promised at that time. I have my member card (although a little worse for wear) also. However, since that time I have been called at least once a year about renewing my membership. I have to constantly explain that I am a life member and the operator says they are updating the information. However, this is the 22nd year that this has happened. Yes, I am still alive and hunting, but this needs to stop. I  might be older than I was in 1989, but I thought the definition of Life Member meant I would be able to enjoy this club for ALL of my natual life! Any suggestions?

I had the same problem...they even stopped sending me their magazine...after I called several times I was offered back issues, but never received them. I did however start receiving them again. I finally asked to speak with a supervisor about my lifetime membership and finally stopped receiving the phone calls. The problem seems to be solved.

You should try being a member and also a gal. Every time the Club calls they ask for Mr. X . I have to tell them that I'm the paying member and they need to talk to ME!

In over 33 years of membership, I've never had a phone call from anyone associated with the NAHC; so, what do they call about?

RT they are trying to sell you somthing . They did it to me once ...

holly, I suppose there is a good reason they only did it once!!!!!

Yea i sent it back and told them to send somthing that was worth buying . I was buying it for my dautherin law and when she tried it on all the snaps broke .Told them to never do it again

Last time they called they asked me if I would like a life time membership.  I told them NO. 

I have been a member since 1995 renewing my membership yearly gives me the power of deciding if I want to continue being a member or not.  So when the club mails me stuff like books, calenders and such that I don't ask for but insist I pay for, I remind them that when I opened my membership I asked that they have on file NEVER to send items to me that I did not ask for or is NOT a free test item, if they continue to mail me these items they will be short one member.  Being a lifetime member gives you no bargaining power, what are you going to say?  "I'll drop my life time membership"?  They already have your money.

All in all I really do enjoy the club and encourage others to join up.  Just let them know from the get go if there is something you want them to place on your file that will help to keep you a happy NAHC member for years to come.

hen they ask for "Mr. X" terll them that "Mrs. X is a WHOLE LOT purtier and sweeter, You should REALLY speak to me intead". If not, their loss sweety....LOL

You should be aware that under US Postal Service regulations, you are under no obligation to return un-ordered merchandise.  Years ago the "Club" sent me a book that I did not order.  I kept it and did not respond to repeated pleas for payment or return of merchandise.  That put a screaching halt to un ordered stuff !

After a while, the pleas ceased.  I am still an annual member.

Ramhunter

Ramhunter and others who may not be aware! You agreed to accept such offers with your membership. In essence, when you joined, you gave the company permission to ship any and everything they desire to you for a trial offer. Legally, the postal regulations were circumvented by your own accord. Failure to return items or purchase them is tantamount to theft, and can also be listed on your credit report as an outstanding, and unsettled debt.

If you do not want the item, all you have to do is: A) mark it refused, return to sender, or B) if you open it, use the return form which is enclosed, that is postage paid to return the item.

Ramhunter, when did you join? I was a Charter Member of the Burkes NAHC, and joined in 1977. The agreement was in force way back then, and even the Burkes used to send out unsolicited calandars, videos, and books. I agree, it's gotten much worse since the club became a corporation! Yep, you got it right, when you refered to yourself as a customer!!!!!!!

Just thought I would put this out there for your consideration and information, this is from the United States Postal Inspection Service and the link will take you to the same.


Receipt of Unsolicited Merchandise

A company sends you a gift in the mail--a ball point pen, a key chain, a tie. But you didn't order it. What do you do? If you are the type of person this company is looking for, you may feel guilty about accepting the item without paying for it. Don't feel guilty! It's yours, and you are under no obligation to pay anything.

You, the consumer, may only legally be sent two types of merchandise through the mail without your consent or agreement:

* Free samples which are clearly and conspicuously marked as such.

* Merchandise mailed by a charitable organization that is soliciting contributions.

And in these two cases, you can consider the merchandise a gift if you wish. In all other situations, it is illegal to send merchandise to someone, unless that person has previously ordered or requested it.

These rules are codified in Title 39, United States Code, Section 3009. That section of the Postal Reorganization Act of 1970 incorporates these protections for American consumers and makes the mailing of unordered merchandise unfair methods of competition and unfair trade practices under the law.

If you do not wish to pay for unsolicited merchandise or make a donation to a charity sending such an item, you may do one of three things (in each case, by law, you have no obligation to the sender):

* If you have not opened the package, you may mark it "Return to Sender," and the Postal Service will return it with no additional postage charged to you.

* If you open the package and don't like what you find, you may throw it away.

* If you open the package and like what you find, you may keep it for free. In this instance, "finders-keepers" applies unconditionally.

Furthermore, it is illegal for a company that sends you unordered merchandise to follow the mailing with a bill or dunning communication.

If you are aware of violations of the federal law prohibiting the mailing of unordered merchandise, or if you have personally had difficulty with such items--especially if you are sent statements demanding payment for the merchandise--you should contact you local postmaster or the nearest Postal Inspector.

The link is Click Here

LS in caps, you are a well of information, thanks for pointing that out.

Your sure welcome DA in larger caps!
The one thing that everyone needs to understand is that they need to ensure that the items are in fact UNSOLICITED. If when they joined the club they did not opt out of the club sending items to them through the mail, the above will not help. If they did however, I would include a printed copy with a written request to REMOVE them from the mailing list.

Longshot, thank you for verifying my post above!!!! BTW, how many times have we seen and answered this same question?

Sorry bud, can't count that high, lol.

I have been a member for well over ten years. I was promised a leather lacket for enrolling as a Life Member......I'm still waiting for it.

I joined 21 years ago and am still waiting for mine too......

After they sent the first thing I had not asked for nor ordered I returned it and then called Customer Service and told them I had from the beginning opted out of these kinds of things and then expalined that I was a 100% disabled Veteran and live on a fixed income and to please remove me from their mailing list for such things and have never recieved another unordered item. I did recieve an empty envelpope from the NAHC once after recieving an email telling me I had been selected to test an item but as I said the envelope was empty and I never recieved any test item either.

I received a test item 2 or 3 years ago, but had to check my email to print out the offer. It was for Gander Mountain and I was not going to be able to get to one before the offer expired, so I declined the test. I have not received any testings since. One of the main reasons I joined the club was to be able to have a chance to test hunting equipment. I have had a lamp, shot and see targets that you would use for a small caliber or BB gun and I think maybe a cleaning rag for guns. Not the deal I thought I would be getting for such a great club or what I thought was a great club.

Brant2409, obviously you didn't actually read the membership agreement. There are NO promises of actually getting picked for freebies, only the promise of an opportunity, if a product becomes available, that matches your profile, if it gets randomly selected. Considering that there are nearly 900,000 members, and only a few items available for testing, then you have already far exceeded the projected test items. Many of us have been here 35 years or more, and have never received anything. If as you stated your goal for membership was for the freebies, you've already gotten them!

Hello Hunters I have read alot of the post about membership and agree with most. This is not really what you get when you join NAHC.
They tell you all the gifts and free trial stuff you get to keep. And they did that, I got the membership gifts and I recieved and fire
starter stick to try, worth maybe $5 and it does work if you have dry wood. But I do enjoy my membership I use it to learn more about
hunting and the products we all use. We must remember nothing in life is free, and you never get out more than you put in. and yes
NAHC is a business and their goal is to sale you things and keep you coming back for more. And thats Ok if you happy with you choice.
You always have the choice to say NO, atleast until Mr. Obama takes that away along with your guns. sorry I got distracted.

Hi Countrywide, and welcome to the forums! Finally someone else capable of reading and comprehending the posts here vs just coming on here and complaining that they aren't getting flooded with free items.

How about posting in the new members section with some general info, location, likes, activities, etc Just as an intro. As you may have found out if you've been perusing the forums, these boards and the mag are pretty much what you get for your $. But people here are very knowledgeable and helpful so jump in and play.

You may need a flak jacket once in a while on the Misc. forum but no one holds grudges. (usually... ;-) )

Oh Steve it's all in fun .

well said I knew when i paid my dues I would not get a chance to go hunting on some big wild adventure but who cares the real enjoyment is making friends and memoreys that will last a life time just look around your state and i will bet some were close you will find a nother member start talking to him and i bet you will become friends who will hunt togeather and share storeys and memorys and that my friend is pricless no club dues will buy that so just be happy with what you have and enjoy the magazine and web site. And so what if out dues are paying for some of the club members or owners to go on a hunt as for the members you are a member to and you have a chance to go on a hunt the same as the other guy did you just didn get picked but dont let your hatred and jelysie destroy your joy for a fellow club member and as far as the club owners go every time you buy a hunting dvd you are giving the company of who ever the dvd is from the money to go on a hunt that you enjoy watching or you wouldn buy the dvd to begin with and as far as i know no post has been deleated

rmason5, Yep I've met some of the guys, personally, and some only via e-mail. Unfortunately, I've only been able to hunt with one of them when he was down in my neck of the woods on a job. I will tell you that the post deletions have occurred since I've been the victim of more than one. There have also been entire threads deleted by the censorship cops, especially after some rat bustard hits the "alert button" over something he didn't agree with.

But we still have some fun

Yeah, I haven't seen over the top censorship....

I've not met anyone personally yet but hopefully that'll change at some point.

rmason5, check out the members map in the Lifers section. I always advise folks to include
their town and state in the comment field. Usually doesn't work... but it really helps locating folks.

Steve, you weren't around a few years ago, when all of the wholesale censorship and banning was going on. Entire threads would disappear with no explanation. holly was here and so was shiloh, lunkerdog, Big Dawg, Mr. VJP, Tom in Tenn., and many others. That's one of the reasons that TLC started the EDH site. There are quite a few guys who are no longer here, because of it; and a few who only drop by every now and then. I got banned the same day I was warned about a post, but ended up getting banned for the same post that got deleted. Also, if you will think back to several months ago, myself, and many others were threatened again with being banned. Remember that this is an open forum, and outsiders who can't post, are still able to alert the censorship cops (along with a few of our resident rats)!!!!!!!!

Yeah Ron, that must have been during my self imposed hiatus from this site. I got po'd about the litany of "why don't I get free" stuff posts and just left. Then I decided to come back and this time around I've trained myself (hopefully) to just ignore those for the most part.

I was actually surprised I didn't get the warning recently in that timeframe you mention but didn't. No shot at other sites but I've checked most of them out and seems like very few guys and sparse posts. This place may have it's share of issues but is quite a bit more active.

I've just started back in here myself. When I first joined, I didn't get into these forums very much. Lately I've realized I can contribute some of my own knowledge to them and learn a few things too.

Good .Join right in .We can use new faces around here .Welcome to the bb .

Wow! I read some of these complants and it makes me wonder if I did a big booboo by joining. ?????
What say ye, comrades???

What time zone does this post in. It says 12:49 pm, but here it is 6:54 am.

Depends on your reasoning for joining. If you joined to cash in of free stuff then you screwed the pooch. If you joined to discuss the great outdoors, then you cashed in. As I've said before, you get out of it what you put in. This is probably the best benefit.

Post time = Eastern time + 4 hours
Central + 5
Mountain +6
Pacific +7