Hunting Blogs

A .223 Rem. Won't Kill A Deer

By: Richard Mann

Nov 01

I'd like to know who started that rumor. They need a good verbal lashing and their right to participate in campfire arguments revoked for at least a year.

Not all that long ago I was trying to live from paycheck to paycheck. (Police officers in the southeastern parts of the United States don't make much money.) I owned one rifle: a Ruger 77 in .223 Remington. I needed free meat and deer season was the best source. The Ruger was my deer—my everything—rifle and I never lost a deer or had one run farther than 60 yards. The bullet I used was Winchester's 64-grain Power Point.

Eventually I acquired more powerful rifles, but when it was time for my 7-year-old son to go deer hunting, an AR-15 with a collapsible stock seemed like the perfect choice. It was also chambered in .223 Rem. A Federal 60-grain Nosler Partition put his deer down on the spot. I knew the bullet would work because I'd used it in Africa on a bushbuck and a warthog.

I've also heard favorable reports from hunters using various weights of the Barnes Triple Shock bullet on deer. Though I have never shot a deer with one of these all-copper projectiles, I have used them on feral hogs. If you want to recover one of these bullets from a whitetail, you'll have to shoot him lengthwise.

On a cull hunt to test ammo on a deer farm in Missouri, several other writers and I used AR-15s in .223 Rem. to take almost two-dozen whitetails in 2 days—bucks and does weighing 100-200 pounds. No deer were lost and all the shots were not perfect. The bullet was DRT's compressed copper powder bullet.

When the Fusion 62-grain .223 Rem. load was introduced I tried it on deer and was so impressed that I started recommending it to others. Reports from the field were all positive. In fact, one farmer's daughter has used that load to take a pickup truck full of whitetails.

Last year I got to test Remington's 62-grain CoreLokt Ultra Bonded .223 Rem. load. It expands wider than any .223 caliber bullet I've ever tested and creates massive internal damage. I suggested a good friend let his 10-year-old son use this load for his first deer hunt and he put a mature doe down at about 50 yards with another AR-15.

When will a .223 Rem. not work on deer? It's like any other cartridge: If you make a bad shot, don't expect to be eating deer steaks. A .223 Rem. will work just fine for deer if you only take shots that you'd take with any other reasonable cartridge. What about BIG whitetails? It doesn't matter. A 250-pound whitetail is not twice as hard to kill as a 125-pound whitetail. Put a bullet through both lungs—let the air out of him—and you'll soon be standing by a warm gut pile.

The main misconception with the .223 Rem. is that it's just a varmint cartridge. As a point of fact, it's an excellent varmint cartridge. But, facts are facts. Load a .223 Rem. up with good bullets—any of those mentioned above—and it will work just fine on deer at any distance inside 200 yards. I've simply seen too many deer cleanly taken to have a contrary opinion.

Are there better deer cartridges than the two-two-three? I believe the answer to that question is: It depends. For a new or young hunter who might be recoil-sensitive, the .223 Rem. is quite undeniably the best choice. And the argument about needing to be an expert shot if you use a .223 Rem. on deer is unsubstantiated. If you can't reliably hit the vital zone of a deer, you need practice, not a bigger gun.

Now, if you still want to argue the point, go shoot a dozen deer in the heart or lungs with a .223 Rem. using any of the bullets mentioned and then we'll find a campfire and talk about it. Until then, you'll just be speculating or repeating the speculation of others who don't have the experience to back up their suppositions. You can't win an argument with me based on speculation.
 

26 comments

# Kajundood
Thursday, November 01, 2012 2:21 AM
You're probably right on all the points you've made but, I'll still err on the side of a humane & quick kill with a larger caliber!
# FRUlery
Thursday, November 01, 2012 9:40 AM
Excellent article.
# FRUlery
Thursday, November 01, 2012 9:43 AM
Have to add to my first comment, please. Marksmanship has everything to do with a clean and humane kill of any animal. As retired military and retired law enforcement, I can attest to the effectiveness of the 223 round. The comment in your article about not a bigger gun, but more practice, hit the X!
# yamaha400
Thursday, November 01, 2012 10:45 AM
I can put down a deer with a 22 lr but that said it is not ok. 223 and 22-250 and the like are varmit rifle enough said
# mmarsh2
Thursday, November 01, 2012 1:46 PM
My Daughter, Son, my Little Brother and Nephew have all Killed mutiple deer with my H & R Handi Rifle in 223.
These kids never lost a deer. I use Nosler 55 Grian Balistic Tips in this gun. Bang goes the gun and thump goes the deer. Some were taken at over 165 yards.
Never had any go over 40 yards from point of impact. I never tried any of the heaver bullets you recomend. Found the Nosler Balistic tips in 55 grain do the job and never had the need or desire to try anything else.
Recently upgraded to a 223 in Winchester model 70 Featherweight. Can't weight to let the kids use this one.
Great caliper for a lot different shooting needs.
Plus you can still afford to shoot a 223 to let them practice and build their shooting skills.

# afuchs
Thursday, November 01, 2012 4:27 PM
a savage .223/20gauge over-under was my first deer hunting rifle. It did its job just fine. The only thing I can say is just be sure the shot is clear of anything else. Where other higher caliber bullets will cut thru most things in their path, a .223 has been known to deflect (even the tiniest bit) off of practically nothing. If you know what you are doing, any caliber gun will take down a deer.
# npaul
Thursday, November 01, 2012 6:45 PM
Hunting & self-defense are the breeding ground for the unsubstantiated caliber arguments. It is very seldom that you will find me not carrying my 9mm for personal protection. I know folks who have said, “I wouldn’t carry anything smaller than .40 because I like the stopping power.” My response is usually, “that’s what I hear from everyone who is a lousy shot.”
I would hunt deer with a .223 if it were legal in Washington for the same reason I don’t feel “under gunned” with a 9mm… it’s all about accuracy. Besides, my wife likes to hunt but my .30-06 beats her up. The .223 is a great round and, provided you can put the bullet in that paper plate sized kill zone, it’s effective.
If you feel better using a howitzer to blow deer off the map then you are welcome to do so, and as far as humane goes, just remember that most butchers I know use a .22 to drop a cow. It were you put the bullet that matters.
# mcooper3
Thursday, November 01, 2012 7:40 PM
I have seen the Remington R-15 in the field which is a .223 used by a 12 year old girl and had no problems dropping a 6 point buck in its tracks with one shot. I use the R-25 personnel which is a .308 also a very good rifle but for younger hunters or ladie hunters that dont like the kick of a bigger round I would recommend the .223 hands down
# SteelCandy
Friday, November 02, 2012 2:05 AM
I have dropped 150+lb feral hogs with a single .223 shot and never had 1 go more than 35 - 45 yards with almost half DRT.
# poboyspecial
Friday, November 02, 2012 11:40 AM
Excellent post and comments. Love the data and congratulations on the kills with your family. I am anxious to have the same experience with my son using the same ammo through my M-4. I have also found the Hornady
V-Max to be an awesome round, any comments or experience with this one?
Thanks again for the experience and information.
# garizola
Friday, November 02, 2012 1:03 PM
My first gun was a Sako .223 and my Dad showed me the vital areas to hit,we had only the federal 50gr or Rem. At that time. This was old school hunting now. I'm 51 yrs. Old now and would still use my Sako .223 for whitetail any day. I'm originally from Idaho and was killing Muley's with my .223 and had no problems they were definitely bigger than the whitetails and never went further than 35-40 yds.after shot. Placement is important in any caliber. But the .223 has one thing that nobody has even mentioned is the speed (velocity of projectile) compared to the .22-250 it's one of the fastest bullets out there Barr none! So by the time you hear the bang the deer is hurting and dropping. This has a lot to do with the accuracy and power punch that this so called "Varmint Master" offers to deer hunting. I highly recommend this for younger hunters and of course the ladies who are not into the recoil of big caliber rifles. .223 is a Definite Deer Killing Phenomenon and Secret of the Gun World. Good Hunting! Never doubt the .223 it will surprise you time and time again. Especially with technology and better ammo being made. Many Blessings! Buck Stops Here! By A .223:)
# gjeffryes
Friday, November 02, 2012 3:41 PM
I have to agree with most of the posts here. It's less about caliber and more about your shot placement and choice of ammo.
# ring-ring
Saturday, November 03, 2012 12:42 AM
It doesn't matter what caliber you use. It is the shot placement. A large caliber
Will make them suffer just as bad as a small caliber will if you make a bad shot.
Take your time and a good shot like he said,they will drop right there or you will
Find the deer 60yards or less.
# charles e spencer
Saturday, November 03, 2012 7:34 AM
I know people who hunt with 223 REM. for years.
They kill alot of deer.
Charles
# jscott21
Saturday, November 03, 2012 10:41 AM
All I can speak for is my own experience. I shot a deer with my .223 and it was knocked down immediately, then got up and wen about 50 yards before it was down and dead. Same day my brother shot one with his .45-70 govt. with the same exact results.
# Glen_732
Saturday, November 03, 2012 8:05 PM
Bottom line .223 is what kills more humans than anything. That's what our boys use over seas. I think any round that is good enough to protect American soldiers could kill a whitetail deer.
# brandongrosse919
Saturday, November 03, 2012 8:40 PM
im sorry to say glen_732 but i was over seas and i wish i had my Remington 700 sendaro sfII 300 mag instead of my gov issue 223. the 223 is a wonder caliber for perfect situations ie no wind, clear shooting, and close range. that is what they were intended for not for any thing else
# walkin
Sunday, November 04, 2012 6:30 AM
A 222 does the same job. And the wind blows in my state the only time it seems it slows up is when it switches directions. And I have had no problem droping a deer dead in it's trakes at 100 yards easy. In fact next weekend 3 white tail does are going to be taken with my 223. My daughter in law took her first deer last year at 150yards with my 222rem on shot one deer.
My son in law has a 300short mag and he shot a buck and put nine rounds in him in vital spot to kill the deer. He was using way to heavy a bullet 165gr and the bullets werr just pocking holes like a steel jacket bullet. He has since gone to a 150gr max load of 4831 more acurate and deadley.
My favorat for long range deer are the 270 or 30-06 130gr in the 270 and 165 or 150gr. 150gr is better in close but 165gr works better out to 400yrds you could push it out to 600 but I don't care for shooting that fare. I don't like tracking down a deer and besides that some land owners won't let you in to get the deer.(can you believe that)
# chuck123
Sunday, November 04, 2012 5:03 PM
I don't dispute that many hunters have harvested deer with a 223. However a hunter must abide by the laws and regulations that govern his/her state. In the state of Washington the regulations state: "Big Game, except ouger, must be hunted with a mininum of 24 calaber (6mm) centerfire rifle" (taken from the WA Big Game Regulations for 2012/2013 season pg 69).

This means that I can't hunt deer with a 223, so in my case it's the State of Washington telling me that a 223 won't kill a deer.
# XX Brandon XX
Monday, November 05, 2012 1:13 AM
Just bought my AR and this was very informative. Thanks
# vdagiel
Tuesday, November 06, 2012 4:25 AM
Interesting article and comments. I think most of us agree that accuracy is the most important factor.

With that said, within it's limitations the .223 can be a viable round for deer sized game and smaller. My "issue" with the .223, and other varmint calibers, is that they tend to have a shorter range than some of the larger calibers. There is no magic bullet or caliber. You have to place the bullet where it will do the most good.

Any rifle/caliber combination, if kept within the limitations of the rifle caliber and shooter, should suffice to put meat in the freezer. Thus it becomes more of a mental masturbation issue than a viable debate.
# dcarter11
Tuesday, November 06, 2012 11:40 AM
I like the .223 and would use it on whitetail deer any where but I don't own one. I like my 30-30 for the woods I hunt. but my Favorite rifle to hunt with is my M91/30 7.62x54r with the 203g bullet. Wow what a rifle and round. ever deer I have shot with it has been about 3 to 4 yards from where it was when I shot it and dead as a hammer when I got to it. I told a friend of mine about this and he did not believe me so I took him hunting with. There was a big doe about 300 yards out in my neighbors field eating some cockle burrs I took the shot. My friend bought himself a rifle just like mine the next day. Back to the .223. Back when I was my assigned rifle was an m16a2 service rifle. I could shoot the bottom out of a soda can from 300 yards and if the wind was consistent enough I could do the same thing a 500 yards. yes I would use a .223 to hunt deer if I had one. I wanted to win that ar15 so bad I could taste it. I know the guy who won has to be Happy as a lark. I guess the bottom line is that you should use the rifle you are comfortable with. Happy hunting everyone and a good season to all. Don't forget to vote. Today is election day.
# jgreen62
Wednesday, November 07, 2012 9:35 AM
Great topic and accurate data it is all about the shot that counts but beside that's dosent damage as much meat .223 is still a good gun ignoring the roomers and will do what you ask of it if used properly.
# jmclean5
Wednesday, November 07, 2012 5:56 PM
Very well written article good job.
The big problem we all face is getting small rifle calibers past most state legislatures to be used for big game. Out with the old and in with the new.
It's time we all went back to the range and get some trigger time and learn what means to place a three rounds in a one inch circle at 300 meters. Our Service Members do it everyday.
# wrench3141
Tuesday, November 27, 2012 2:07 PM
I agree with all the points Richard brings up on the 223. However the biggest problem I see is uninformed people using either varmint bullets or military full retaliatory. I killed an 11 point buck a few years ago that was wounded and still alive with one shot from my Ruger Single Six loaded with CCI 22 short hollowpoints and killed him instantly. But that still doesn't make it a good deer round. I shot an eight point Sunday morning early and accidentally iced up my scope lens, the deer dropped on the spot with a perfect gut shot, so bad shots and mistakes happen to everyone, I recover mine with the 30 06. I own 6 ARs and multiple calipers in deer rifles, but I reserve the 223 for Coyote's under 225 yards.
# VDENZER
Saturday, December 15, 2012 7:31 PM
Years ago Police in Wisconsin didn't get overly paid either. Using a personally owned Ruger Mini-14 (doubled as swat equipment) my oldest son showed me what kind of damage can be done to Wisconsin whitetails. Entrance hole was the size of a pencil, the exit was the size of my fist. It can, like most rounds, to a number when well placed. Eventually my second son also had his own Mini-14. At 18 they each 'graduated' to a Remington BDL 7MM Mag. 7MM Mags make good holes too. Good shot placement is the key to any round! stay safe

fatboy, Wi

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