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Kayser: Weigh-In And Win! (No. 1 of 2)

By: Mark Kayser
38 comments On the Trail with Mark Kayser

Jan 30

Have you flipped through the February/March 2012 issue of North American Hunter yet? Take a look at my "Whitetails"column. The title is "What Would You Do?" I present a series of questionable in-the-field circumstances and how I would respond to each of them.

Starting now, I'll present two additional scenarios in my blog within the next few weeks. Weigh-in with your responses to the question, "What would you do?" On March 15, 2012, the NAH editors will choose their favorite response and the winner will score a scent control care package from Hunter's Specialties.

It's a blustery, snowy day as you watch a grassland location between two deep, dark, timbered draws, one on your property and one on the neighbors.

The crest of the pasture includes an invisible border between you and the absentee landowner who almost never hunts or even visits the property. Both of you have been lacking in the enthusiasm department to get the boundary fenced, but with no livestock on either property there is no rush.

Suddenly a doe's head appears, followed by a buck carrying the largest set of antlers you've ever seen. As quickly as they appear, they disappear back toward the neighbor's timber. Did you really just see a giant buck? Is it going to return and possibly run your way?

Not waiting for answers, you steady your rifle in the direction of the disappearing duo and wait. Seconds seem like minutes, but the rutting pair once again dashes into sight in an obvious sign of rutting behavior. You swing slightly, questioning whether they are on your side of the property or not. Again, they dart out of sight straight away. Frustrated, you grip the rifle tighter, hoping they'll show again.

Your wish is granted, and this time the doe, without hesitating, beds directly on the crest of the ridge with the buck standing right below her in a clear display of dominance to any other bucks waiting in the wings. You now have a clear shot, but truly don't know which side of the boundary the buck stands.

Low visibility, tall grass and rolling terrain create uncertainty, plus the buck's large antlers have the adrenaline surging through your veins. It's a matter of feet either way.

What would you do?  Weigh-in using the comment box below.

38 comments

# skemmerer
Monday, January 30, 2012 12:01 PM
Simply put - the right thing! The answer doesn't take but a split second to acknowledge, I don't shoot unless I know exactly where that deer is standing.

With scenarios just like this commonplace in hunters' daily quests, I'm happy and blessed to have the knowledge and lessons my father has passed on to me.

Hunting is a great priviledge; and a great reward when done the right way.
# mjd
Monday, January 30, 2012 12:22 PM
don't shoot! your neighbor may be watching the same deer on his property.
# John A
Monday, January 30, 2012 12:51 PM
the article never states if you have an agreement about hunting the border areas, if there is no agreement about being able to hunt and or retrive deer on the neighbors properety then no question do not shoot, but if the terms of an agreement, in writing or a hand shake are there then take the shot. Sounds to me like you know the property owner in which case you would most likely have such an agreement as I do on my property. At least on two sides of my property anyway.
# npaul
Monday, January 30, 2012 1:43 PM
Wait, watch and learn. What would you hope your neighbor did if he were in your shoes? There are several things to think about. The best answer is “don’t shoot if you’re not sure.” Take some new found knowledge away from this moment.
First: There are big bucks here. The monster you are looking at is not the only buck in the area (even if he is the biggest).
Second: Hunt were you saw them. You know the big guy was in the timber so maybe you set up closer to that timber the next day so you can catch him before he gets to the property line. If you don’t have some type of hunting arrangement with your neighbor, get one. It takes the guess work out of the next time.
Third: You might get a better chance. It could be that a few moments of patience was all that was needed and your buck might wonder into the “clear”. If not you can still hold your head high and know you did what was right.
Last: If your neighbor rarely visits his property, your buck is probably safe. There is always next year and, armed with your new found knowledge, you will be ready for the next meeting.
(If you do need to talk to your neighbor, “I would like to hunt on your property because I‘ve seen some great bucks right on the line and wasn’t sure if it would be okay.” Sounds so much better than, “I shot a big buck standing just inside your property cause I knew you wouldn’t mind.”)
# dtait
Monday, January 30, 2012 3:02 PM
Clearly the boundries are not marked nor does it seem that either person is to concerned about it. Take the shot and put meat in the freezer and a trophy on the wall.
# hmartin11
Monday, January 30, 2012 3:41 PM
If there is an agreement in place take the shot. If there is not an agreement then don't take the shot and call your neighbor as soon as you get to the truck!
# bbarnett5
Monday, January 30, 2012 3:57 PM
I would let down my rifle it is obvious this buck is chasing does, Pick up my rattle bag give one blow on my estrus bleat then grunt two small grunts followed by a wheeze and slam the bag in my hands with a combination of grunts to see if I could lure the buck far enough to be sure he is standing on my land then take steady aim behind the shoulder and BANG!!!! feed the family and mount him on my wall.
# iceman2072007
Monday, January 30, 2012 5:08 PM
I'd have to try to lure the doe back to my property with a fawn bleat. if that didn't work I'd be sure to call the neighbor and ask permission to hunt the edges of his or her property in the future.
i'm confident the pair will be back soon!
# jbelvl
Monday, January 30, 2012 5:42 PM
Let's see, I'm 70 years old. I've been hunting since I was 14. No hunting lessons except those my father taught me and his father taught him. Never, ever 'brush' shoot or 'noise' shoot. If you cannot identify your target you simply DO NOT FIRE. There are more lessons I learned very early, like all guns are loaded, never aim at something that you are not going to pull the trigger on...especially people. Take only 'good shots' not shots you cannot, and or, should not take. My dad was a sportsman and never shot an animal he did not have a tag for or did not harvest the meat afterward.
# DCOCOZZIELLO
Monday, January 30, 2012 6:08 PM
I would always know of my location. If I am second guessing I would wait. Why take the chance. What could beyond this brish? I wait, there is always another day and another deer. Hopefully! Do the right thing.
# mpeterson9
Monday, January 30, 2012 7:12 PM
ok, see what side if he is on, if he is on your neighbors side i would start to use my M.A.D hypergrowl and start to lead him straight into my trap, then after he is close enough for a shot and he is on your side raise your riffle or bow and aim, ready, shoot! then as you aprroch the deer you are thinking "he is truley a monster buck"! as you check to be forsure what side he is on you start to tag the deer and then as you load him up you know you did the right thing by checking before shooting! :)
# DBAKER
Monday, January 30, 2012 8:02 PM
Do what's right...if you are not sure don't shoot.Get an agreement with your neighbour beforehand .
# jrcampbell3
Monday, January 30, 2012 8:13 PM
wait him out, see if he comes onto your property. hope you don't get so excited you soil yourself!
# onewithMOwoods
Monday, January 30, 2012 8:15 PM
"throw a few snort weezes and he'll investigate closer. pray to god that works, wouldnt want to risk a shot that might be dangerous to anyone or the animal. hopefully you have built a relationship with your neighbor and have discussed a scenario like this. he doesnt hunt himself so hopefully he is ok with you hunting the borders of his land, and is aware of these possible shots. you should have that already prepared before you hunt there. what if you shot him on your side and he ran on to his land, the same upfront courtesy needs to be pre planned
#
Monday, January 30, 2012 8:27 PM
DSCOTT
It's all about hunting. You really should have talked to your neighbor already so this would not be a problem. Go talk to your neighbor to get permission and/or figure out what to do to get that deer on your property.
# rmyers3
Monday, January 30, 2012 8:42 PM
#rmyers The crest of a hill is always questionable if not dangerous,safety is always a concern.When property lines are in doubt and you want your neighbor to remain a neighbor , hold your fire. The doe will not remain a rest for very long and when she moves it may be in your direction and down the hill.Then take your shot and enjoy the backstrap.
# sunburst
Monday, January 30, 2012 8:52 PM
The right thing to do is wait until you get your bearings on where the property line is. Chances are if you shoot without knowing, he will go into the neighbors property. Always hunt like someone is watching you.
# CBOutfitting
Monday, January 30, 2012 9:21 PM
Try to secure permission to shoot as soon as possible and if not granted then you must sucumb to the rightful thing to do and not shoot. Good things come to those who wait so stand a watchful eye on the couple and either make them head your way by calling or wait to see if a fickle wind will make them move your way. Not knowing the true relationship between the two owners or even if they share cell phone numbers makes this a true what if scenario. I do believe though that before this happened to me again I would invite the other owner over for coffee the next time we're in town together.
# backwoodsrob
Monday, January 30, 2012 10:01 PM
Well, if no agreement exist, then I pull out my cell phone and hopefully have his number on speed dial, once permission is obtained, the buck is mine! If not I get out my Primos Buck Roar call or equivalent call. When the wind gives me a slight break I will hit him with a snort wheeze and try to be agressive as I can with my grunts. Hopefully the wind will die down enough to prick his ears and cause him to come see this intruder. If he comes and I am sure of him being on "my side". It's just a matter of getting the broadside shot.
If all this doesn't work, I enjoy the show keeping a watchfull eye out for another buck trying to move in.
# LBshooter
Monday, January 30, 2012 10:48 PM
Well since I don't hunt with a rifle I could not shoot unless he was within 30 yrds give or take. If I did hunt with a rifle, as described in the article that I have a clear shot I would take it. If I know for a fact that my neighbor and I have neglected to have a fence built to create a boundary and I know he is never on the property as stated in the article then I would not pass up the biggest deer ever seen. To pass up an animal because of a few inches one way or the other would not enter into my mind and sorry guys, but I find it hard to believe that all of you would pass because of a unknown property line of a foot or two, come on who you all foolin. It sounds like alot of guys are trying to win free stuff by saying what they think the editors want to hear. jmo lol
# LBshooter
Monday, January 30, 2012 11:23 PM
In addition , the article states that the doe bedded on the crest of the hill and the buck below, so he would be on my side.
# jtucker98
Tuesday, January 31, 2012 7:45 AM
I'm with LB on this one, in my area we have big valleys and few cattle run through those timbers. Boundary lines are often noted by landmark features and old broken down fences. Would I shoot over top of a fence at a deer 200 yards on my neighbors property? No, for safety reasons. Would I shoot at a great animal that is on the edge of property I have permission to hunt with no visible boundary line? Yes.

On another note, I find it to be so demeaning to the term wild animal when landowners think that because a deer's core zone is on the land they own that they can claim ownership over the animal. During the rut or shotgun season another fortunate hunter takes it on a different property and the landowner gets all bent out of shape because someone else tagged "his" deer.
# RPOPE
Tuesday, January 31, 2012 9:10 AM
Where I hunt, it would totally depend on which property line we are talking about: which is directly related to our relationship with that property owner/leaser. If it was to the west: no problem! And he's welcome to do the same! He's offer more than once for me to cut back and forth across the property line if it means a more stealth approach to my stand of choice.

To the north? Not a chance in heck. That guy will shoot first and ask questions later if he thinks you STEPPED across the fence line onto his side.
# wsmith27
Tuesday, January 31, 2012 9:51 AM
I would hit a quick snort wheeze on my call and see if I could get him to respond. There are any number of things to entice him to move closer (rattling, grunting, etc.). However, if he chooses to stay with his doe, then it would be unethical to shoot without knowing the boundaries.
# parousia
Tuesday, January 31, 2012 11:28 AM
Kill it and drag it...
# rgreen26
Tuesday, January 31, 2012 7:17 PM
Unless I had written permission to hunt any property I wouldn't shoot. Then I would try to gain permission, if that doesn't happen try to figure his travel route and do my best to entice him to my patch of land.
# skibroom
Wednesday, February 01, 2012 5:22 AM
There is no question.....if permission hasn't been granted for the ajoining property then there is no shot. Also, if the hunter snapped the photo, there is no shot on the deer in the first place.....head on and vitals covered. In either case, for a deer like this I have a vast amount of patience and will wait. His next move could be in my favor.
# Davis58
Thursday, February 02, 2012 8:40 AM
The first thing that comes to mind is; Does he have a clear shot? NO! Tall Grass between him and the buck along with low light. # 2 Is he sure that buck is on his property or not? NO! He has already questioned himself about that! When there is that many questions being anwered NO. Then do not take the shot! The only thing to do is back out and then got to the neighbor and ask about permission to hunt the property line and get it in writing. Then the next morning setup again for him. When it doubt! Back out!! That includes taking a questionable shot!
# gooddogs
Thursday, February 02, 2012 4:08 PM
As much I would like to because that would be my biggest buck to date I would have to let it walk unless it walked closer. We get along with the land owners on all sides of us due to shooting only on our land and then asking permission to track on to theirs when needed. The last thing I would want to do it hurt that relationship.
# Bill257
Friday, February 03, 2012 7:30 PM
If uncertain about the ability to accurate place a shot in a safe manner, no shot should be taken. Seeing the biggest buck of your life and having some great and instantaneous shooting improvements bestowed upon one person are unlikely to happen on the same day; rumor has it, the opposite is actually more common. End of story - wouldn't be for me. If you can't shoot you can call or rattle, while the buck is unlikely to leave the doe, getting him to move 50, 20, or even ten yards could turn a no-shoot situation into one where the safety needs to be off NOW. If he holds his ground, you got away without doing your homework.
Now its time to find out what should have been know before hunting anywhere. Where is the boundary. Then make a call to the neighbor, let know you have been hunting and wanted to know if you could hunt his property as well. Would he mind if you shot a deer on his property from a stand on yous that overlooks the border? if You shot a deer and had to track it, would it be okay to follow it onto his land and leave directly after retrieval?
That buck may not be back, but you will be and will know a few things...
# LBshooter
Friday, February 03, 2012 8:51 PM
Ok, it seems that no is reading the article right. There is no mention of yardage and evey answer for the most part is the same , grunt, rattle etc... they are going to have to give alot of free stuff away. The article states the property line is on the crest of the hill and if the doe beds on the top of the hill and the buck is below then he is on your side of the line, shoot and then call your neighbor to track it if you don't dump him in his tracks. Let's add another variable to the question, if your neighbor never hunts and is almost never at the property then we can assume that we may never have met him or know how to get in touch with him to ask permission, then what, yea I know call the GW. If your only 20 yrds away or 50 , then some tall grass won't make a big difference and your backstop is the hill itself. I think you all need to fess up and be alittle bit more honest in your answers.JMO
# acox4
Sunday, February 05, 2012 2:16 PM
I would have to pass unless I was 100% sure of property lines. I am trying to teach my boys responsible hunting so I need to lead by example. I admit it would be tempting but we need to teach the future hunters the right way to do things.
# RAbear51
Friday, February 10, 2012 7:44 AM
I can create "gray areas" to ANY ethical question but right is right. Whether the neighbor ever visits the property or not is not the issue.It is his property and if there is a question then patience would be in order.If the doe is on the crest of the hill and the buck is just below her then he may just be on my property but there arises another consideration. The second issue here is safety.. Shooting toward a"crest" of a hill is sort of like shooting into the air..if your bullet might not end it's trajectory in the ground it is not a safe shot. I would have to wait this one out,see how it plays out and if I end up without an oppurtunity for a shot I can use this experience to help my future hunt plans for this area.Seems like hunter competition won't be an issue and perhaps I can fgure out a way to communicate w/ my neighbor to share my experience w/ this monster and express my reservations about taking the shot. I may just come away with future permission to hunt wherever I want to to connect on this buck. At the end of this day I can hold my head high either way because I have resisted the urge to disassemble the structure of"right" and have not given in to impatience thus creating an unsafe shot scenario.Who knows..this might just be the day that my neighbor decides to be out strolling around his land perhaps just out of sight beyond my bullet trajectory. I'll watch and wait..There is always the next hunt!
# R.D.Julin
Friday, February 10, 2012 1:56 PM
This is a very clear cut case of "Do the Right Thing". Don't shoot. However, if you and your neighbor have discussed allowing each other to shoot deer on each others land, and have an agreement to do so in certain situations, that is another thing. I recommend discussing the property line issues prior to every season with neighbors. Especially when you have any stand from which you can see to the edge of your land.

In this case it sounds as though there is hesitation in regards to this shot - both with what is behind the target and whether the buck is on your land or not. In my experience if you are hesitating about any shot you should not take it. This rule of thumb applies to many situations: shot location, comfort with distance, what's behind the animal, and in this case property lines. Sometimes waiting will yield a better, more ethical, shot. If it doesn't, you'll at least be able to sleep easier knowing you did the right thing...though that rack may still haunt your dreams forever. That's hunting.
# tnorman2
Monday, February 13, 2012 12:08 PM
Sit still and hope they move your way so you know for sure which side it is on. If they don't there is always tomorrow and they shouldn't move very far for the next day or so.

When you get home call the landowner up and ask for permission to hunt his side as well since he never does.
# BJONES
Monday, February 13, 2012 7:28 PM
Taking in to consideration that no distance what the shot would be was given, the fact it is a blustrey and snowy day and unsure who's land he is on .I would watch them till dark and if they didn't come closer ,I'd ease out .That night I would call my neighbor and ask his permission to hunt that part of his property that is visable from my stand and if he's ok with that or not I'd back in the stand before dawn and hope they have moved over on my side .
# bjbailey1
Sunday, February 19, 2012 2:02 PM
I agree with the others. If you are not sure, DO NOT take the shot. They may possibly come in closer to where you are sure they are on your side. If they don't, then I guess it is time to make better friends with the neighbor.
# KKEHOE
Wednesday, February 22, 2012 8:28 AM
Don't shoot. Wait and see how it plays out. You could try and call the doe your way. Maybe a grunt, snort, wheeze to bring the buck a little closer. Besides being ethical, you will have a clear consience if you are able to harvest him on what you know is your property.

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